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  1. #256
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money



    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Yes, Joe IS a smart guy. And that's exactly where the issues already raised about how the Ravens chose to treat him, especially with the whole Zorn/Cameron incident, enters the picture. The Ravens, through their actions, paid huge money to Ngata, Suggs, and they also chose to re-sign Rice. They did not choose to re-sign Flacco. (And please don't start with "they offered him a lot of money", okay? They offered him less than he was worth, and never budged from that spot, betting they'd put the squeeze on him. They bet. And they lost.)

    They also continued to saddle Joe with Cam Cameron, despite the documented difficulties between those two. Joe also can see the Falcons going out and getting Julio Jones, after already having Roddy White, Michael Turner, and Tony Gonzales. What that all adds up to is that as far as building an offense around Joe, it never really happened. The O-line was a joke as well. So because Joe is smart, he's smart enough to look at all of that and take that into account.

    Everyone keeps talking about how much better it will be for Joe here vs elsewhere. That's all well and good, but that's also filled with a certain amount of hype. There are going to be a lot of changes next year. Harbaugh has already come out and said he wants to keep Ed Reed. Ed Reed does not help Joe Flacco, OR the Ravens all that much. A LT DOES. The Ravens are going to have to make some tough choices. And based on their track record, it's not nearly as bright and rosy for Joe as some of you are making it out to be. So the notion that Joe should take less for the privilege of playing for the Ravens, while well intended, really doesn't carry that much weight. And he knows it. Because he's smart. IF some of the other factors had been dealt with differently, then it would be different now. But the Ravens made THEIR choices, now it's Joe's turn.
    Joe Linta, is that you?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  2. #257

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Name me a single franchise-caliber Raven that the organization has not offered market-value and/or failed to retain that, in hindsight, would come anywhere close to supporting your assertion.

    If anything, one can argue they overpay their home-grown talent.
    You're missing the point. I'm talking about the prospect of building the team around Joe, not signing or not signing a single franchise caliber Raven. And part of the reason for that is exactly that they HAVE overpaid their blue chip players. As a result, they can't NOW do what needs to be done to really put a top tier cast around Joe. You've basically just made my point for me.




  3. #258
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    And people are looking at the past too much. Most of this contract is what can he do in the future? He is entering his prime. His level of in-game intelligence will only increase. Brady and Manning and Brees weren't picking apart opposing defenses in the first 5 years of their career, such skill comes later on. This is where Joe should be heading as well. We all know he has the physical tools. He should only get better and better at reading and diagnosing opposing defenses.

    I keep seeing the "inconsistency" argument too for why he doesn't deserve top $$, but no one mentioning he had Cam Cameron his entire career. We've seen what happens when Cam leaves a QB - they excel. The last part of this season Joe pretty much dominated the competition. If I were his agent, I would say "Did you see what this guy did once Cam left? The future is bright". And I would use that as why he is worth so and so $$ in the future with respect to this new contract.




  4. #259

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Joe Linta, is that you?
    Sadly, I was actually anticipating just such a comment. Congrats. You're the big winner.




  5. #260
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Sadly, I was actually anticipating just such a comment. Congrats. You're the big winner.
    Well you gotta admit, you definitely came off as having some inside knowledge and understanding of what's going on with Joe.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  6. #261

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    And people are looking at the past too much. Most of this contract is what can he do in the future? He is entering his prime. His level of in-game intelligence will only increase. Brady and Manning and Brees weren't picking apart opposing defenses in the first 5 years of their career, such skill comes later on. This is where Joe should be heading as well. We all know he has the physical tools. He should only get better and better at reading and diagnosing opposing defenses.

    I keep seeing the "inconsistency" argument too for why he doesn't deserve top $$, but no one mentioning he had Cam Cameron his entire career. We've seen what happens when Cam leaves a QB - they excel. The last part of this season Joe pretty much dominated the competition. If I were his agent, I would say "Did you see what this guy did once Cam left? The future is bright". And I would use that as why he is worth so and so $$ in the future with respect to this new contract.


    (And I for one HAVE made the argument that the inconsistency was because of Cameron, not Joe And that Joe accomplished what he did DESPITE Cameron, and a definite lack of true elite talent around him.)




  7. #262

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    You're missing the point. I'm talking about the prospect of building the team around Joe, not signing or not signing a single franchise caliber Raven. And part of the reason for that is exactly that they HAVE overpaid their blue chip players. As a result, they can't NOW do what needs to be done to really put a top tier cast around Joe. You've basically just made my point for me.
    Maybe I did miss your point. Sorry.

    I do think there is a reasonable middle ground that gets Flacco the pay-day he's earned, and gives the Ravens room to operate under the cap for the next 5 years. Now, if he gets hurt or totally regresses, the Ravens are screwed, but that is their risk, not Flacco's.

    The Ravens asking for the home-team discount is possible...as is Flacco asking for all the money up-front, cap implications be damned. I don't see either as likely (i hope).




  8. #263

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Well you gotta admit, you definitely came off as having some inside knowledge and understanding of what's going on with Joe.
    Inside knowledge? Are you joking? All one has to do is look at the past 5 years. It doesn't take any inside knowledge or any crystal balls; just common sense and an awareness of what's happening on a football field.




  9. #264

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Maybe I did miss your point. Sorry.

    I do think there is a reasonable middle ground that gets Flacco the pay-day he's earned, and gives the Ravens room to operate under the cap for the next 5 years. Now, if he gets hurt or totally regresses, the Ravens are screwed, but that is their risk, not Flacco's.

    The Ravens asking for the home-team discount is possible...as is Flacco asking for all the money up-front, cap implications be damned. I don't see either as likely (i hope).
    And as others have already pointed out, Suggs didn't give any discount; Ngata didn't give any discount; why should Joe, huh?




  10. #265
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Don't pay much attention to RavensRule (Joe Linta) he puts Flacco before the team.

    What GM WOULDN'T pay Suggs and Ngata at the time? They earned those contracts just as Flacco has earned the contract he's about to get, stop whining about re-signing elite players, we wouldn't have had this success without them.

    I think Flacco deserves a top 3 deal, not sure about the highest paid QB ever, that's too much of a stretch.




  11. #266
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    You are paying him in part for what he has done and in part for what he is capable of doing.

    No, he doesn't have the stats the other guys do, but a lot of those other guys don't even have 1,000 yard RBs. Hell I think I read a stat where the Packers haven't had a 100 yd rusher in like 40+ games. Flacco could easily throw for 4000+ yards and 30 TDs in a system designed for such production. And maybe we will morph into that somewhat. But right now we still choose a more balanced offense, and have some darn good RBs to utilize.
    Barring injury to either Joe or the key parts of his OL, next season could be the one in which he racks up those big numbers - even with two very productive running backs. This guess is based on the dual assumption that Cam held him back, and that (at least this year) his OL pass protection was poor until Jah Reid got hurt.




  12. #267

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    And as others have already pointed out, Suggs didn't give any discount; Ngata didn't give any discount; why should Joe, huh?
    There is guaranteed money...and then there is how it is structured to support a team's cap position (which allows them flexibility down the road, if needed).

    Flacco and his agent are not going to give a discount on the former (nor should they) and I don't think the Ravens will have a problem cutting a check....but their should be (I hope) enough mutual interest to negotiate the latter.




  13. #268
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Suggs and Ngata weren't asking for over 20 million a year either rofl

    Its going to be a huge huge challenge for the FO.




  14. #269
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Inside knowledge? Are you joking? All one has to do is look at the past 5 years. It doesn't take any inside knowledge or any crystal balls; just common sense and an awareness of what's happening on a football field.
    It's not a big deal, settle down Francis. I was more or less joking. But since you asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Yes, Joe IS a smart guy. And that's exactly where the issues already raised about how the Ravens chose to treat him, especially with the whole Zorn/Cameron incident, enters the picture. The Ravens, through their actions, paid huge money to Ngata, Suggs, and they also chose to re-sign Rice. They did not choose to re-sign Flacco. (And please don't start with "they offered him a lot of money", okay? They offered him less than he was worth, and never budged from that spot, betting they'd put the squeeze on him. They bet. And they lost.)
    How do you know what they offered him? How do you know it was the Ravens that lost? Joe could have gambled as well he could have not had this postseason and had to settle for less.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    They also continued to saddle Joe with Cam Cameron, despite the documented difficulties between those two. Joe also can see the Falcons going out and getting Julio Jones, after already having Roddy White, Michael Turner, and Tony Gonzales. What that all adds up to is that as far as building an offense around Joe, it never really happened. The O-line was a joke as well. So because Joe is smart, he's smart enough to look at all of that and take that into account.
    While there is much that would fall inline with the "inside knowledge" comment. It goes along with my joking that you were Joe Linta. The Falcons did a lot to help Ryan and so did the Ravens to help Joe. Brought in Boldin, resigned Rice, got a deep threat in Torrey, two young athletic Tight ends. Resigned the best guard in the game, Got a stud tackle who is now a guard. So looking at it through an objective view point (not one of Joe's agent) the Ravens have made moves too.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Everyone keeps talking about how much better it will be for Joe here vs elsewhere. That's all well and good, but that's also filled with a certain amount of hype. There are going to be a lot of changes next year. Harbaugh has already come out and said he wants to keep Ed Reed. Ed Reed does not help Joe Flacco, OR the Ravens all that much. A LT DOES. The Ravens are going to have to make some tough choices. And based on their track record, it's not nearly as bright and rosy for Joe as some of you are making it out to be. So the notion that Joe should take less for the privilege of playing for the Ravens, while well intended, really doesn't carry that much weight. And he knows it. Because he's smart. IF some of the other factors had been dealt with differently, then it would be different now. But the Ravens made THEIR choices, now it's Joe's turn.
    Again, this comes with a view that the Ravens have made no attempt to sign Joe. Or that they are treating him differently than every other franchise player they've signed to a big deal. This is one of the fanbase's main gripe is not signing guys earlier when you could potentially get them cheaper. i.e. Suggs, Ngata etc.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  15. #270
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    He is only in his fifth year and already setting records. He hasn't entered his prime yet and he's already talked about as one of the best in the league. He's 6, count em', 6 years younger than Brees, and that's nothing compared to Brady and Manning.

    Who wouldn't want to be Joe Linta right now?
    Last edited by The Excellector; 02-06-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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