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  1. #61
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoom View Post
    These gymnastics of picking a choosing when we are going to count are hurting my head. I'm sure I could counter with Ryans injury, or the quality of defenses he played (San Fran had the second best D in the league this year) but how about this: I will admit that Joe Flacco has been better than Matt Ryan in the playoffs since 2010. I just think that judging QBs on such a tiny sample size is ludicrous. I would much rather judge a QB on how they have done over the past 32 games than the past 4. Hell, I could probably find 4 game runs that made Boller look like a decent QB. Well, maybe.
    The key is those games he picked were obviously the most important. Which is a big reason why Joe is playing in the superbowl and Matty Choke isnt.





  2. #62
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoom View Post
    I am completely fine with people taking Flacco, I just think it is ridiculous to not understand why many people would want Ryan (which is why this thread was started, from what can tell).
    Because stats don't hold weight with a lot of people. Too subjective and especially in football entirely too many variables.





  3. #63

    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    I love Joe and I'm more than happy with him being here for the rest of his career.

    But the way some flip out whenever someone mentions Ryan is pretty funny. Dude is a hell of a QB.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.





  4. #64
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    most regular season wins... does that get you a medal or something?
    LOL...that's like saying "I've climbed 90% of Mount Everest faster than anyone else." ... Bc





  5. #65

    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Because stats don't hold weight with a lot of people. Too subjective and especially in football entirely too many variables.
    If advanced stats are so fraudulent, then why are they behind the best prediction system in football? Do you not trust Nate Silvers mumbo jumbo either?





  6. #66
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoom View Post
    If advanced stats are so fraudulent, then why are they behind the best prediction system in football? Do you not trust Nate Silvers mumbo jumbo either?
    Stats predicting what team will win and comparing players are two different things, entirely different.





  7. #67
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    LOL...that's like saying "I've climbed 90% of Mount Everest faster than anyone else." ... Bc
    I ran the first 9/10 of a mile in 3 minutes, 20 seconds! That's on pace to break the world record! (Nevermind that I fell over and gasped for air and took 5 minutes to finish the rest of the race)





  8. #68
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoom View Post
    If advanced stats are so fraudulent, then why are they behind the best prediction system in football? Do you not trust Nate Silvers mumbo jumbo either?
    Easy, because those variables that go into individual stats in football, that we've been talking so much about? Those variables are all about the TEAM. That's why as an individual stat it isn't effective in judgment, but for the team, it's very effective. Predicting wins is also a TEAM-BASED judgment. So stats are relevant.





  9. #69
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Look if you want to believe in stats, great, whatever floats your boat. I don't think they're meaningful way of comparing two people, mainly in football, there are just way to many variables to account for.

    That said, I'd take Flacco over Ryan. Joe has done more with less. I've sen Ryan lead his teams on game winning drives too. Just watching the two my opinion (which has as much weight as subjective stats) is Ryan can sometimes have that deer-in-the-headlight look and Joe has the here-I-fucking-come look. Not only are those the looks but when their teams needs those attitudes I see it in Joe's play more than I do Ryan's
    This. This is what it's all about. Ryan looked scared as hell against Seattle, on the possession AFTER he threw the pick that got Seattle back into the game. Atlanta got the ball back, leading by one score, and needing a drive to re-take control of the game and swing momentum back into their favor. The camera zoomed in on Ryan's face before the first snap of the drive, and his eyes looked wide and frightened. Like a deer, staring into the oncoming headlights, blind and lost.

    The result? A three-and-out, which ultimately gave Seattle the ball back and kept them in the game. Shit, even if they pick up a few first downs and punt, it's better than a three-and-out. The way it played out was even worse - Ryan's passes died on him, I distinctly remember him short-hopping a throw on an 8-yard-out.

    In the stat book, it just shows up as an incompletion. On the field of play, where the legends of great players are written, it shows up as a man failing to rise to the occasion.

    Contrast this with Flacco, who has routinely put game-on-the-line balls in his receivers' hands, only to be let down time and time again. And he still keeps coming, he never loses confidence. And here he is, on the precipice of greatness, and still he is compared to a fraud like Ryan - a regular season indoor player from the NFC.

    In a few years, when Flacco has proven himself as one of the dominant QBs of the AFC, people that love their stats will forget how much they trashed him. The talking heads and the pundits will praise him, while they talk shit on some new under-the-radar up-and-comer. But I won't forget.





  10. #70
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoom View Post
    And for all of Joe's "postseason heroics", he has exactly the same QB rating in his postseason career as Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan certainly has a better home field for stats, and has slightly better receivers, but has never had a great defense or running game like Joe, so comparing wins or postseason wins is dumb.
    This is the first year that Atlanta hasn't had a very good running game to support Ryan. Their defense has been up-and-down between bad and average, though. A defense doesn't make a QB better, however, though it can certainly help him get more wins.





  11. #71
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by phacts View Post
    Contrast this with Flacco, who has routinely put game-on-the-line balls in his receivers' hands, only to be let down time and time again. And he still keeps coming, he never loses confidence. And here he is, on the precipice of greatness, and still he is compared to a fraud like Ryan - a regular season indoor player from the NFC.
    There were four drops during the 92 yard drive to win in Pittsburgh last year. There were two big drops on 3rd and 4th down against the Broncos. Flacco still delivered the passes that ultimately one both games.

    The man is Joe Cool.





  12. #72
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    Re: NFL.COM Top Quarterbacks under 30

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    But the way some flip out whenever someone mentions Ryan is pretty funny. Dude is a hell of a QB.
    He is a good QB. I don't think he's as good as Flacco, but I think one can make a reasonable argument either way. Flacco may not put up the numbers in the regular season that Ryan has, but there are factors outside their personal abilities that affect those numbers.

    I think if Atlanta had chosen Flacco and we ended up with Ryan here in Baltimore we would not have had the same success we've had with Flacco.





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