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  1. #13

    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...



    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
    Ray Lewis didn't murder anyone. Even if you take off the purple colored glasses, it is clear that two hangers on in a large entourage got into a fight with the two victims. They brandished knives and stabbed them to death. While this was going on, Ray Lewis was in the limousine waiting to depart the Buckhead area.
    What also came out during the trial was the victims were the aggressors in the whole affair. The knives were brandished after one of Lewis's codefendants was bashed on the head by a bottle and another member of the victims' party announced he was getting his gun.

    The gun-getter was given immunity for his testimony by the prosecution despite admitting to firing a pistol down a crowded city street after Lewis's limo.

    I don't have a problem with people discussing the case. I have a problem when they discuss it inaccurately, which seems invariably to be the case. The prosecutors dropped the murder charges against Lewis because the evidence didn't support those charges. The jury acquitted his codefendants because the evidence didn't support that murder had taken place that night.




  2. #14
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    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    Ray has already answered all the questions in his interview. He doesn't need our help. The only way to respond, is not too. The trolls will get tired and go away.




  3. #15
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    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    What also came out during the trial was the victims were the aggressors in the whole affair. The knives were brandished after one of Lewis's codefendants was bashed on the head by a bottle and another member of the victims' party announced he was getting his gun.

    The gun-getter was given immunity for his testimony by the prosecution despite admitting to firing a pistol down a crowded city street after Lewis's limo.

    I don't have a problem with people discussing the case. I have a problem when they discuss it inaccurately, which seems invariably to be the case. The prosecutors dropped the murder charges against Lewis because the evidence didn't support those charges. The jury acquitted his codefendants because the evidence didn't support that murder had taken place that night.
    I have never done this.

    THIS ^ .

    Nicely and succinctly put. If you study the evidence it appears what most likely happened is the group the dead guys were in initiated violence and those two ended up stabbed in what is probably self-defense.

    There were two mistakes on Ray and his group's part. First, getting out of the limo because they were being yelled at by some passers by. They were all ready to leave and I guess felt insulted or "disrespected" so they got out. After some words out comes the champagne bottle to the head. The next mistake was Ray's, telling people to keep quiet. He should have gotten out of the area since they were being shot at and gotten to a phone and called police.




  4. #16
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    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    See folks, it's posts like this why Ray should and is willing to talk about it.

    He was just on ESPN this morning and he's open to discussing it. There's going to be a couple of features with him, being interviewed by Sal Palentonio, where he goes into detail.

    There's nothing to hide. And I hate using this term, but it's a teachable moment and Ray seems very willing to talk about it.

    Kudos to Ray for dealing with it again and shame on those who still believe this nonsense when the case facts have been out there for over a decade for everyone to read.

    I expect posts like this from Steelers fans, not from his own fan base.
    Wow...well said!

    this has got to be the first time that i have agreed with something you have said from top to bottom lol
    PUT RAY RICE & REX RYAN BACK ON THIS TEAM NOW!
    (Notice: if this is now the future and this signature has become outdated because Ray Rice has signed with any of the following cities, Buf, Mia, Ne, Nyj, CIN, CLE, "PIT", Hou, Ind, Jac, Ten, Den, Kc, Oak, Sd, let the record show that I was never in favor of his release) This message has been brought to you in part by the R.R.R.R. Preservation Assoc.




  5. #17

    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    My hope is that Ray's willingness to discuss the case will put to rest some of the misguided notions held by the public of what went down that night, but I won't hold my breath.




  6. #18

    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    I don't have a problem with people discussing the case. I have a problem when they discuss it inaccurately, which seems invariably to be the case. The prosecutors dropped the murder charges against Lewis because the evidence didn't support those charges. The jury acquitted his codefendants because the evidence didn't support that murder had taken place that night.
    Well put. As long as it's accurately reported - and it too often isn't - no one should really have a problem with it.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




  7. #19
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    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    This will be the last big time he (and we) will have to deal with this story. Speak with most anyone outside of Raven's country and you will discover most people think he is a murderer who got away with it. Until now the Ravens (and Ray) have not been in a big enough spotlight to correct this misperception.

    I think it's a good thing in a way. Now you have the largest stage, and a captive audience. The story will have a chance of being corrected once and for all, and then one way or another, it will begin to fade away after the game. The national view of the Ravens as thugs may soften, the perception of Baltimore from this and series like The Wire can moderate a bit, and we can all move along.

    Everyone here has made good points, but the reality is people from all around the country have not been properly informed as to the facts. Ray himself, recently asked about the path of his life said "I would not change a thing." He believes he was tested for a reason, to change him from 'a guy with a checkered past' to 'a guy with a mission.' As far as he's concerned even this is a chance to do some good on the big stage.

    Here's the opportunity, and that's good. We'll get through it, and as a knowledgeable fan, enjoy the thought that you were right long before the rest of the nation.




  8. #20

    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by Everything_Ravens View Post
    Wow...well said!

    this has got to be the first time that i have agreed with something you have said from top to bottom lol
    Except he must not have read my whole post. Yea, a question mark may may have been missing. Ray was never convicted of murder. Ray did learn and has been a contibutor on the field and off the field.. I am a fan of football and Ray Lewis. Not a fan of people who cannot understand a post that was defending Ray Lewis. Read the whole post next time.




  9. #21

    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post
    Yeah I don't understand why people think just because the Government charges you with something you're guilty. You hear countless stories of people who did nothing wrong being convicted and those who did wrong going free. People need to look at the actual details but in today's short attention span society nobody wants to take the time to learn the facts. It's pretty sad.
    Yeah. Whenever you have time, it's worth reading through the FBI's annual Uniform Crime Report (UCR). The numbers the FBI reports for a lot of things (for instance, the actual murder clearance rate) is pretty interesting data.




  10. #22
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    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post
    Yeah I don't understand why people think just because the Government charges you with something you're guilty. You hear countless stories of people who did nothing wrong being convicted and those who did wrong going free. People need to look at the actual details but in today's short attention span society nobody wants to take the time to learn the facts. It's pretty sad.
    The government arrives at these cases with suspicious minds. At least on the federal side, when agents get an investigation, they immediately get to work ferreting out who broke which law and how. Everything is seen through the prism of the investigation target or defendant being guilty, a scumbag, etc. It also doesn't help that agents get rewarded for the number of cases that they bring and get indictments on.

    The agent's investigation is then fed to the line prosecutors. Line prosecutors work in a culture of "putting the bad guys away." Oftentimes, the office is structured to get the most indictments and then convictions. Line prosecutors have it in their power to authorize arrests in certain offices -- to decline an arrest, however, they need permission. They are also judged on the number of cases and indictments that they are handling.

    In the federal system, the DOJ has pushed charging the most serious crime possible in every indictment since the beginning of this century. Very little discretion is left to prosecutors.

    If a prosecutor wants to do the right thing (and not just the strictest thing possible), s/he has to be savvy and know the system. More often than not, it takes more work to dismiss a case than it does to proceed to trial. (I know because I had to move heaven and earth within my own office to cut defendants breaks that I thought they should get -- either because they made a simple mistake that didn't deserve years of jail time or because the evidence collected against them was collected in less than honorable ways.)

    The only thing standing between the government running wild over society is the adversarial jury system. Take away the adversarial nature of the system and you get government by fiat.

    Having been a prosecutor on the federal level, I can tell you that most prosecutors strive to do the right thing. But the system is designed towards certain outcomes not so much "the right thing." And I can very easily paint a picture for you of how innocent people end up being convicted for crimes that they did not commit.

    The DA in Atlanta was furious that Ray didn't cooperate with them from the beginning. Everything Ray did from that point was seen through the lens of suspicion. It was only when they got to trial that their sand castles of evidence fell apart and they had to strike a deal with Ed Garland to at least get something out of Ray before their whole case fell apart.

    Until the system gets to be based more on good judgment and fair process instead of outcomes, false convictions will continue to be a fact of life. Just because the government says it does not make it true. The government is often very wrong.




  11. #23

    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    The thing is, Ray was never even accused of actually stabbing someone. The reason he was charged with murder is because Georgia had this obscure law where if you were in a melee that involved someone's death, and you threw a punch, then you could be charged with murder.

    Remember, the entire basis of their case was the limo driver testifying that he saw Ray raise his arm as if to throw a punch. This was later thrown out, as the driver never saw Ray actually "throw" a punch. By all accounts, Ray's only involvement was trying to break the fight up and get people back into the limo. The prosecuter, an inept, overly ambitious and overzealous moron, so completely overreached on it that it blew up in his face.

    It also became very obvious that Jacinth and Baker were the aggressors, and that Sweeting and the other guy who's name escapes me at the moment were acting in self defense. That, and the total lack of any real evidence to the contrary is why nobody was convicted for murder.

    Yet, fans from other teams who hate Ray, call him a murderer, still persist to this day. It just shows the complete ugliness and idiocy of some sports fans today.

    The Roethlisberger cases really bear no comparison. There was a load of evidence and witnesses, not to mention multiple cases, and a pattern/reputation for being in those situations and acting boorishly/drunkenly. While it's quite obvious Ray didn't murder anyone, the jury is still out on whether Ben actually raped a girl(s).




  12. #24

    Re: I guess we should all be/get ready for the Ray Lewis murder case stories for the next 2 weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    What also came out during the trial was the victims were the aggressors in the whole affair. The knives were brandished after one of Lewis's codefendants was bashed on the head by a bottle and another member of the victims' party announced he was getting his gun.

    The gun-getter was given immunity for his testimony by the prosecution despite admitting to firing a pistol down a crowded city street after Lewis's limo.

    I don't have a problem with people discussing the case. I have a problem when they discuss it inaccurately, which seems invariably to be the case. The prosecutors dropped the murder charges against Lewis because the evidence didn't support those charges. The jury acquitted his codefendants because the evidence didn't support that murder had taken place that night.
    I don't think anybody could have said it better.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




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