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  1. #37
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials



    Quote Originally Posted by callahan09 View Post
    His five-year regular season stats align favorably with Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning.

    Brady: 1243/2018, 13925 Yards, 97 TD, 52 INT --> 87.5 QB Rating
    Favre: 1342/2149, 14825 Yards, 108 TD, 66 INT --> 86.8 QB Rating
    Flacco: 1507/2489, 17633 Yards, 102 TD, 56 INT --> 86.3 QB Rating
    Peyton: 1749/2817, 20618 Yards, 138 TD, 100 INT --> 85.9 QB Rating
    Brees: 1125/1809, 12348 Yards, 80 TD, 53 INT --> 84.9 QB Rating

    Flacco has more passing yards in his first five seasons than anybody except Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Matt Ryan, and Drew Bledsoe. He's got the 11th most touchdown passes. Nobody with more touchdown passes had thrown fewer INTs. Only one other quarterback who threw 100+ TDs had fewer than 60 INTs.

    I'd say that his regular season stats actually compare very well historically. He may not have matched Peyton and Brady's and Brees' contemporary numbers, but that's because those guys aren't young QBs. Compare the first five years of Flacco's career to anybody else's and it is a very favorable comparison for Flacco, and demonstrates a very good start to a career.

    That's the problem I have when people say Flacco doesn't have the regular season stats to show he is a worthy QB... they don't even consider looking at how the guys he is being compared to were playing in THEIR earlier seasons. The fact is, not many QBs have ever performed at a Flacco-like level at this point in their careers.
    There is a difference between first 5 years and first 5 years as a starter when making comparisons - in Joe's case, those facts align. Favre, Brees and Brady didn't start right away, and Brady was a ball control manager, to a certain extent, out of the box. My point was Joe is young enough that he has 10 more years to make his case.




  2. #38

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Da Vida View Post
    Neither of whom really belong in the Hall, IMHO
    Namath was the first 4000 yard passer in the pro football history. Bradshaw was an integral part of those four SB teams, and it's not like those steroid-fueled Steelers teams were crap when they weren't winning a SB.




  3. #39
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by saintmatthew View Post
    And on that note, it's an absolute crock that Dalton and Schaub got picked for Pro Bowls and Flacco hasn't which to me pretty much invalidates the pro bowl as a measure of anything except jack and shit.
    Yup. Too bad it's always one of the ways they measure players. With Ray retiring they bring up all the Pro Bowls before the All-Pro teams and even his Defensive Player of the Year awards. Pro Bowls unfortunately mean something to the voters.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #40

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Namath was the first 4000 yard passer in the pro football history. Bradshaw was an integral part of those four SB teams, and it's not like those steroid-fueled Steelers teams were crap when they weren't winning a SB.
    Bradshaw had the "steel curtain" to lean on though. if you look at his statistics, they are average at best. Wins and SB appearances got him in, not his talent.

    As far as the Pro-Bowl. He will never have a shot at the Pro-Bowl as long as Manning and Brady are in the league. He just won't. It's why everyone else gets picked as alternates. And why the Pro-Bowl is a complete joke. That's ok though, because Joe has better things to do right now.

    Honestly, whether he truly is or is not on trajectory for the HOF, it's just damn nice to actually have a QB that we can talk about like this.




  5. #41
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Namath was the first 4000 yard passer in the pro football history. Bradshaw was an integral part of those four SB teams, and it's not like those steroid-fueled Steelers teams were crap when they weren't winning a SB.
    I guess. On Bradshaw, though, going back to a point made earlier, if you trade out Ken Anderson (or, for that matter, say, Joe Theismann, Steve Bartkowski, Joe Ferguson, etc.), the Steelers likely still win a few SBs, while Bradshaw likely gets shut out.

    Namath is a weaker case. In the 9 seasons he started at least half of his team's games, in only 2 was his TD - INT ratio positive, and even then, not by much. The year he broke 4,000 yards he threw 28 interceptions. He was a turnover machine who could sling it, helped pull the greatest upset ever and who scored with the ladies. That's it.




  6. #42

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Namath was the first 4000 yard passer in the pro football history. Bradshaw was an integral part of those four SB teams, and it's not like those steroid-fueled Steelers teams were crap when they weren't winning a SB.
    Good players certainly. But their resumes were both boosted by extraneous factors. Namath was boosted into the HOF because of the "Guarantee" and Bradshaw won 4 rings playing for the most popular football team (at the time). Flacco won't ever have those extraneous factors, he's going to have to get in on stats and wins alone.




  7. #43
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    Wins are nice but no HOF selection committee are going to vote him in on wins and intangibles alone. 2 Super Bowls help but he needs the stats to back it up. Like I said before, Jim Plunkett has two rings and is not a HOF QB. I think Flacco can do it but he needs to increase his production to do so.
    His PLAYOFF STATS certainly make a pretty huge case, though.

    If he continues to get into the playoffs each year and then having a 100+ qb rating in the playoffs game (5 straight qb ratings of 95+) than he will without a doubt get in




  8. #44
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    I used to think Todd Heap and Chris McAllister were both potential Hall of Famers, too.

    Things happen. We'll see. I hope you're right, Mr. Linta.
    He probably should be. He was the second best CB in the league for 9 years.




  9. #45

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    Good players certainly. But their resumes were both boosted by extraneous factors. Namath was boosted into the HOF because of the "Guarantee" and Bradshaw won 4 rings playing for the most popular football team (at the time). Flacco won't ever have those extraneous factors, he's going to have to get in on stats and wins alone.
    The point is that winning can cover for a lot of stats for the HOF votes. Flacco is on track to do a lot of winning. Winning at an unprecedented level, for that matter. People can make all the excuses they want about Brady not starting his rookie year or whoever, the fact remains that Flacco is the only QB in the SB era to start in and win a playoff game in each of his first five season- and when (not if! ) they win SB XLVII he's really going to be on a pace no other QB has been.

    You have to go back to Otto Graham to find a QB with more success.

    Now, I'm among those who think the W-L measuring of QB's is mostly bunkum, but the first two things most people talk about when comparing QB's is wins, losses, and Super Bowls. That seems to be true of the HOF voters, too.

    Given how long they took to put Art Monk in the Hall, I don't have a lot of respect for it as an institution.




  10. #46

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials



    ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!




  11. #47

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Da Vida View Post
    Namath is a weaker case. In the 9 seasons he started at least half of his team's games, in only 2 was his TD - INT ratio positive, and even then, not by much. The year he broke 4,000 yards he threw 28 interceptions. He was a turnover machine who could sling it, helped pull the greatest upset ever and who scored with the ladies. That's it.
    Yep. And you can add to that some other facts:
    In a 12+ year career, he guided his team to the playoffs exactly 2 times.
    He has a career record below .500 (62 wins, 63 losses, 4 ties).
    He had a career QB rating of 65.8, for cripes sakes. Yes, it was a very different era, but even compared to the legitimately great QBs of his own era (Stabler - 75.3, Griese - 77.1, Staubach - 83.4, Tarkenton - 80.4), a 65.8 just doesn't measure up.

    Even making allowances for the fact that it is called the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of Greatness, popularity should only account for so much. Not only was Namath not "great", he honestly just wasn't even particularly good.
    Last edited by MarkS; 01-24-2013 at 04:25 PM.




  12. #48
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Joe Namath, personality aside, put the AFC/AFL on the NFL map. First time an NFC team lost to the upstart counterpart. That really was his great contribution... Bc




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