Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 67
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    795

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    What if they do away with Pro Bowls (which I hope they do)?
    Then they will ask how many MVP's, Offensive Player of the Year, or All Pro Teams did he make.




  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arbutus
    Posts
    1,875

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    How many Pro Bowls has Flacco made? And yes I know that the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest but so is the Hall of Fame. One step at a time for Flacco.
    And on that note, it's an absolute crock that Dalton and Schaub got picked for Pro Bowls and Flacco hasn't which to me pretty much invalidates the pro bowl as a measure of anything except jack and shit.




  3. #18

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by somedumbguy View Post
    3 SB's, 6 PB's and 3 All-Pro's.


    So for 3 years he was considered by somebody one of the best QB's in the league and 6 for 6 years somebody thought he was one of the 2 or 3 best QB's in his division. Joe needs to do that, and to do that he needs to improve his stats a lot.

    THe QB that I think Joe might draw comparisons to is Phil Simms. 2 Superbowl rings, tough in the playoffs, generally thought of as a really good QB, but maybe just short of HOF status. I think Simms may one day get there because of the team he played for, but he is not in yet.
    I wasn't putting that all up there to annoint him already, simply show a point of consideration. IF you get 3 SB's, stats are less important. ANd if anything,that set of stats shows just how popularity biased Pro-bowls and even ALl-PRo's are.

    IF we win this year, Joe will start going to Pro-Bowl's starting next year. Although hopefully, he wikll be turning down the invitations due to the SB's he will be starting in for years to come.

    Andy Freaking Dalton is starting in this year's pro-bowl. Even Andy Dalton's mom knows Flacco is a better player then him. IF he were not in the SB, tis would have certainly been Flacco's first Pro Bowl season.




  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    If Aikman and Bradshaw get into Canton on the strength of the teams they played on...why shouldn't Flacco? Flacco has actually had to win some games with his arm for the Ravens to have achieved their current status, unlike the two QBs mentioned before.

    Of course, the HOF is not always a reflection of sheer talent in comparison with your peers. If it was about sheer talent, Ken Anderson would have the HOF spot of a vastly-inferior Terry Bradshaw. Bradshaw had only one season with a QB rating over 85 and never cracked the 90 mark. Now before you go off and say that was because of his era, let me remind you that is comtemporary Ken Anderson had five seasons with a rating over 85 including FOUR seasons of 95.7, 93.9, 98.4, and 95.3 (all of which led the NFL). Anderson's omission from Canton is an absolute joke.

    Lastly, to those who think Flacco is not a HOF QB, I would encourage you to go put Flacco's production/wins/efficiency up against any HOF quarterback. He's going to compare favorably to most.

    Terry Bradshaw in his first five years was TERRIBLE. He had 48 TDs against 81 INTs. In fact, in his rookie year, Bradshaw threw 6 TDs and 24 INTs for a QB rating of 30.4 . He was also sacked 25 times in 8 starts. He had a 38.1% completion percentage and threw 24 INTs in 218 attempts. He threw 83 completions to his own teammates and 24 to the opposition. His QB rating was 8.6 points lower than Ryan Leaf's rookie year, which is widely viewed as the worst season in NFL history. If Blaine Gabbert lost his job after his rookie year with a far less disastrous performance , what do you think would have happened to Bradshaw if he played in today's NFL?

    Troy Aikman threw 69TDs-66 INTs in his first five years. This included 20TDs/36INTs over his first two seasons. Once the Cowboys started to win, suddenly people forgot about how bad he was early in his career. Aikman never had stats remotely close to HOF enshrinement, despite playing with Hall of Famers right and left on the offensive side of the ball. He never had a 3500 yard season. He only threw over 20 TDs once in his career. His best season in terms of passing yards was the equivolent of Flacco's 5th best season (in 5 years). Flacco is destroying him in career TD/INT ratio (1.82 to 1.17). Lastly, his regular season winning % (.570) isn't anywhere near Flacco's 67.5%. Yet, he won 3 Super Bowls, so his very pedestrian career is suddenly regarded a lot more highly. If Flacco's unparalleled success is credited as being a "game manager", then what was Troy Aikman? Considering that the one thing that game managing QBs are supposed to do well (protect the ball and let your teammates win for you) is an area where Flacco severely trumps Aikman, I think it's hard to argue that he doesn't have the start of HOF credentials.

    A lot of QBs currently in Canton had far more struggles and far less success in their first five NFL seasons than Flacco.

    Also, Jim Plunkett is a poor comparison. Plunkett had basically played his way out of a starting job in the NFL after years of so-so play in New England. His winning two Super Bowls were in seasons late in his career when he was a backup thrust into a starting/babysitting role on some stacked Raider teams. If Flacco wins two Super Bowls, it will be nothing comparable to the route that Plunkett took to get there.

    There are so many variables in determining whether a QB is HOF worthy. Typically, without a win, you have to have the eye-popping stats like Marino or Fouts. The difficultly level gets progressively easier with one win and with multiple appearances. If the Ravens lose this game in 11 days and Flacco never returns to a Super Bowl, he will have to accumulate some insane stats to get into Canton. With one win, the picture changes quite a bit. At that point, he merely needs to put together another 6-8 years closely similar to his 2010 and 2012 seasons and he will be a virtual lock.

    I think some people here are undervaluing how much his reputation has changed this postseason. I've heard multiple people refer to him as "one of the most clutch QBs of all-time" or something closely similar to that. That type of reputation, when coupled with a lot of postseason wins, a Super Bowl win, and some good overall stats, is a sure recipe for HOF admission.




  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,547
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    I have to think that if Flacco continues on his trajectory - which I think will continue upward given what we've been seeing this year, that you won't have to worry about pro-bowls or awards. I strongly suspect going forward he's going to have a few 30+ TD, 4000+ yard seasons under his belt. Pro-bowls don't really mean anything much anymore, and I think the writers know it, but - Flacco is probably going to find himself in more than a few of them from here on out due to the perception of him changing so radically this postseason. If he gets MVP in this year's SuperBowl, he's probably a lock for a pro bowl next year unless he falls flat on his face.

    What he's done in his first five years is pretty remarkable - if he continues to keep making the playoffs and winning playoff games, he'll be a shoe-in.




  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    I have to think that if Flacco continues on his trajectory - which I think will continue upward given what we've been seeing this year, that you won't have to worry about pro-bowls or awards. I strongly suspect going forward he's going to have a few 30+ TD, 4000+ yard seasons under his belt. Pro-bowls don't really mean anything much anymore, and I think the writers know it, but - Flacco is probably going to find himself in more than a few of them from here on out due to the perception of him changing so radically this postseason. If he gets MVP in this year's SuperBowl, he's probably a lock for a pro bowl next year unless he falls flat on his face.

    What he's done in his first five years is pretty remarkable - if he continues to keep making the playoffs and winning playoff games, he'll be a shoe-in.
    +1




  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    8,179
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    I don't really care if Flacco makes the HOF or not. He's a much better QB than Dilfer without doubt, but my only sense is that he (Joe) wins a Super Bowl for us Ravens fans. I do not want him to be like Dan Marino, a HOF QB without a championship ring. If Joe can play (speculating here) 15 years, and make it to two Super Bowls (winning both), then I'd be a happy Ravens camper. Wouldn't you? ... Bc




  8. #23

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Regular season Stockmarket Joe is keeping Joe from Probowls......and the HOF.

    This team won't have their heart-n-soul leader of the last 17yrs next year. Get the team back to the playoffs and win without him. That will help a great deal....

    PS - AND PLAY ON THE ROAD IN THE REGULAR SEASON LIKE YOU PLAY IN THE PLAYOFFS ON THE ROAD!
    After 5 years of early exits, the journey is finally complete.




  9. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,173
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    If Aikman and Bradshaw get into Canton on the strength of the teams they played on...why shouldn't Flacco? Flacco has actually had to win some games with his arm for the Ravens to have achieved their current status, unlike the two QBs mentioned before.

    Of course, the HOF is not always a reflection of sheer talent in comparison with your peers. If it was about sheer talent, Ken Anderson would have the HOF spot of a vastly-inferior Terry Bradshaw. Bradshaw had only one season with a QB rating over 85 and never cracked the 90 mark. Now before you go off and say that was because of his era, let me remind you that is comtemporary Ken Anderson had five seasons with a rating over 85 including FOUR seasons of 95.7, 93.9, 98.4, and 95.3 (all of which led the NFL). Anderson's omission from Canton is an absolute joke.

    Lastly, to those who think Flacco is not a HOF QB, I would encourage you to go put Flacco's production/wins/efficiency up against any HOF quarterback. He's going to compare favorably to most.

    Terry Bradshaw in his first five years was TERRIBLE. He had 48 TDs against 81 INTs. In fact, in his rookie year, Bradshaw threw 6 TDs and 24 INTs for a QB rating of 30.4 . He was also sacked 25 times in 8 starts. He had a 38.1% completion percentage and threw 24 INTs in 218 attempts. He threw 83 completions to his own teammates and 24 to the opposition. His QB rating was 8.6 points lower than Ryan Leaf's rookie year, which is widely viewed as the worst season in NFL history. If Blaine Gabbert lost his job after his rookie year with a far less disastrous performance , what do you think would have happened to Bradshaw if he played in today's NFL?

    Troy Aikman threw 69TDs-66 INTs in his first five years. This included 20TDs/36INTs over his first two seasons. Once the Cowboys started to win, suddenly people forgot about how bad he was early in his career. Aikman never had stats remotely close to HOF enshrinement, despite playing with Hall of Famers right and left on the offensive side of the ball. He never had a 3500 yard season. He only threw over 20 TDs once in his career. His best season in terms of passing yards was the equivolent of Flacco's 5th best season (in 5 years). Flacco is destroying him in career TD/INT ratio (1.82 to 1.17). Lastly, his regular season winning % (.570) isn't anywhere near Flacco's 67.5%. Yet, he won 3 Super Bowls, so his very pedestrian career is suddenly regarded a lot more highly. If Flacco's unparalleled success is credited as being a "game manager", then what was Troy Aikman? Considering that the one thing that game managing QBs are supposed to do well (protect the ball and let your teammates win for you) is an area where Flacco severely trumps Aikman, I think it's hard to argue that he doesn't have the start of HOF credentials.

    A lot of QBs currently in Canton had far more struggles and far less success in their first five NFL seasons than Flacco.

    Also, Jim Plunkett is a poor comparison. Plunkett had basically played his way out of a starting job in the NFL after years of so-so play in New England. His winning two Super Bowls were in seasons late in his career when he was a backup thrust into a starting/babysitting role on some stacked Raider teams. If Flacco wins two Super Bowls, it will be nothing comparable to the route that Plunkett took to get there.

    There are so many variables in determining whether a QB is HOF worthy. Typically, without a win, you have to have the eye-popping stats like Marino or Fouts. The difficultly level gets progressively easier with one win and with multiple appearances. If the Ravens lose this game in 11 days and Flacco never returns to a Super Bowl, he will have to accumulate some insane stats to get into Canton. With one win, the picture changes quite a bit. At that point, he merely needs to put together another 6-8 years closely similar to his 2010 and 2012 seasons and he will be a virtual lock.

    I think some people here are undervaluing how much his reputation has changed this postseason. I've heard multiple people refer to him as "one of the most clutch QBs of all-time" or something closely similar to that. That type of reputation, when coupled with a lot of postseason wins, a Super Bowl win, and some good overall stats, is a sure recipe for HOF admission.
    Bradshaw and Aikman won lots of Super Bowls while playing on media darling teams (Steelers and Cowboys). Don't discount how much that improves their standing in the eyes of the media. Certainly that inflated Bradshaw's candidacy. Flacco will never have that luxury.

    They also played in a much different era of football. Fair or not, Flacco and his stats are going to be compared with his current peers (Rodgers, Manning, Brees, Brady, all have rings) and when compared that, his numbers simply don't match up AS OF NOW. We all hope that changes. He doesn't need to match the numbers exactly. He'll probably never be a 5,000 yard passer. But he has to close the gap some. Like GOTA said, let him make a Pro Bowl before we worry about the HOF.
    Last edited by s.r.genovese; 01-23-2013 at 07:30 PM.




  10. #25

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    If Aikman and Bradshaw get into Canton on the strength of the teams they played on...why shouldn't Flacco? Flacco has actually had to win some games with his arm for the Ravens to have achieved their current status, unlike the two QBs mentioned before.

    Of course, the HOF is not always a reflection of sheer talent in comparison with your peers. If it was about sheer talent, Ken Anderson would have the HOF spot of a vastly-inferior Terry Bradshaw. Bradshaw had only one season with a QB rating over 85 and never cracked the 90 mark. Now before you go off and say that was because of his era, let me remind you that is comtemporary Ken Anderson had five seasons with a rating over 85 including FOUR seasons of 95.7, 93.9, 98.4, and 95.3 (all of which led the NFL). Anderson's omission from Canton is an absolute joke.

    Lastly, to those who think Flacco is not a HOF QB, I would encourage you to go put Flacco's production/wins/efficiency up against any HOF quarterback. He's going to compare favorably to most.

    Terry Bradshaw in his first five years was TERRIBLE. He had 48 TDs against 81 INTs. In fact, in his rookie year, Bradshaw threw 6 TDs and 24 INTs for a QB rating of 30.4 . He was also sacked 25 times in 8 starts. He had a 38.1% completion percentage and threw 24 INTs in 218 attempts. He threw 83 completions to his own teammates and 24 to the opposition. His QB rating was 8.6 points lower than Ryan Leaf's rookie year, which is widely viewed as the worst season in NFL history. If Blaine Gabbert lost his job after his rookie year with a far less disastrous performance , what do you think would have happened to Bradshaw if he played in today's NFL?

    Troy Aikman threw 69TDs-66 INTs in his first five years. This included 20TDs/36INTs over his first two seasons. Once the Cowboys started to win, suddenly people forgot about how bad he was early in his career. Aikman never had stats remotely close to HOF enshrinement, despite playing with Hall of Famers right and left on the offensive side of the ball. He never had a 3500 yard season. He only threw over 20 TDs once in his career. His best season in terms of passing yards was the equivolent of Flacco's 5th best season (in 5 years). Flacco is destroying him in career TD/INT ratio (1.82 to 1.17). Lastly, his regular season winning % (.570) isn't anywhere near Flacco's 67.5%. Yet, he won 3 Super Bowls, so his very pedestrian career is suddenly regarded a lot more highly. If Flacco's unparalleled success is credited as being a "game manager", then what was Troy Aikman? Considering that the one thing that game managing QBs are supposed to do well (protect the ball and let your teammates win for you) is an area where Flacco severely trumps Aikman, I think it's hard to argue that he doesn't have the start of HOF credentials.

    A lot of QBs currently in Canton had far more struggles and far less success in their first five NFL seasons than Flacco.

    Also, Jim Plunkett is a poor comparison. Plunkett had basically played his way out of a starting job in the NFL after years of so-so play in New England. His winning two Super Bowls were in seasons late in his career when he was a backup thrust into a starting/babysitting role on some stacked Raider teams. If Flacco wins two Super Bowls, it will be nothing comparable to the route that Plunkett took to get there.

    There are so many variables in determining whether a QB is HOF worthy. Typically, without a win, you have to have the eye-popping stats like Marino or Fouts. The difficultly level gets progressively easier with one win and with multiple appearances. If the Ravens lose this game in 11 days and Flacco never returns to a Super Bowl, he will have to accumulate some insane stats to get into Canton. With one win, the picture changes quite a bit. At that point, he merely needs to put together another 6-8 years closely similar to his 2010 and 2012 seasons and he will be a virtual lock.

    I think some people here are undervaluing how much his reputation has changed this postseason. I've heard multiple people refer to him as "one of the most clutch QBs of all-time" or something closely similar to that. That type of reputation, when coupled with a lot of postseason wins, a Super Bowl win, and some good overall stats, is a sure recipe for HOF admission.
    Man, you need to stop posting information showing what other QBs did compared to Flacco. The naysayer will get upset and still not believe you.
    Flacco is a quiet QB who does things every year that impresses no one because fans want higher playing stats every time. The cumulation of his first 5 years makes some of the great QBs accomplishments look bad. Give Flacco more years with T Smith,Boldin,J Jones,Pitta, and Caldwell as OC, watch what happens. Receivers who can run and catcghhold on to the damn ball),Joes first 5 years, who did he have to throw to. Derek mason(dropped the winning pass against the steelers), Clayton(dropped more passes then he should have), Evans(sorry to bring it up) and that damn cam cameron(OC coach who couldn't figure out a way for receivers to get separation). Flacco will get better with time and if tthe current receivers stay on. Thats what helped every great QB, a set of receivers to grow with.
    I'm with Flacco doing what he has done already. He plays to his abilities and goes about it in a business way. A team needs a QB who stays calm and has a cannon for an arm. Do hope he cuts loose after this season, after this postseason play, he deserves to. Be cool for him to wear an Art Modell T-shirt and hold his newborn up on the podium with his wife. Doubt he does it, he too business like.Hell. I hope all the Ravens wear an Art Modell shirt after the game, Win or lose. Art deserves his props for believing Baltimore was his future and he was right.




  11. #26

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    I think he is going in the right direction. If he wins 2 SBs with his arm and finished his career at the all time top in wins and playoff wins, it will be hard to keep him out.




  12. #27

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    Bradshaw and Aikman won lots of Super Bowls while playing on media darling teams (Steelers and Cowboys). Don't discount how much that improves their standing in the eyes of the media. Certainly that inflated Bradshaw's candidacy. Flacco will never have that luxury.

    They also played in a much different era of football. Fair or not, Flacco and his stats are going to be compared with his current peers (Rodgers, Manning, Brees, Brady) and when compared that, his number simply don't match up AS OF NOW. We all hope that changes.


    Flacco needs all AFC HOF QB's to just effin' retire and give the young man some breathing room. To expect a QB to throw for 4K on an annual basis is insane, but Brees is doing it....and making Joe look pedestrian in the mean time.
    After 5 years of early exits, the journey is finally complete.




  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    . He'll probably never be a 5,000 yard passer. .
    I understand your point and think you make some good points, but let me say that I don't think any team would ever want their QB to be in that 5000 yard club. That typically signals that your team is either involved in a bunch of shootouts (and that your defense is not championship quality) or playing from behind quite a bit.




  14. #29

    Cool Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post
    Man, you need to stop posting information showing what other QBs did compared to Flacco. The naysayer will get upset and still not believe you.
    Flacco is a quiet QB who does things every year that impresses no one because fans want higher playing stats every time. The cumulation of his first 5 years makes some of the great QBs accomplishments look bad. Give Flacco more years with T Smith,Boldin,J Jones,Pitta, and Caldwell as OC, watch what happens. Receivers who can run and catcghhold on to the damn ball),Joes first 5 years, who did he have to throw to. Derek mason(dropped the winning pass against the steelers), Clayton(dropped more passes then he should have), Evans(sorry to bring it up) and that damn cam cameron(OC coach who couldn't figure out a way for receivers to get separation). Flacco will get better with time and if tthe current receivers stay on. Thats what helped every great QB, a set of receivers to grow with.
    I'm with Flacco doing what he has done already. He plays to his abilities and goes about it in a business way. A team needs a QB who stays calm and has a cannon for an arm. Do hope he cuts loose after this season, after this postseason play, he deserves to. Be cool for him to wear an Art Modell T-shirt and hold his newborn up on the podium with his wife. Doubt he does it, he too business like.Hell. I hope all the Ravens wear an Art Modell shirt after the game, Win or lose. Art deserves his props for believing Baltimore was his future and he was right.
    Damn, I don't think a qb on track to the HOF would need that many excuses.




  15. #30

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by seraph View Post
    Damn, I don't think a qb on track to the HOF would need that many excuses.
    What excuses? LOL




Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland