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  1. #61
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    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...



    Quote Originally Posted by Volse11 View Post
    I don't see how they are going to keep him for that. I don't blame him, but it is too bad he has to go. Great player...
    Well, it's not impossible, assuming he winds up getting closer to the $6 million/year end of the spectrum versus the $9M/year end. If the Ravens gave him $36 over 6 with a $15 million signing bonus, they could actually structure his contract so that he has a base salary of $1.5 for 2013 with a $2.5 prorated signing bonus. That would make his cap # only $4 million for next year, which is hardly unreasonable for a player who has truthfully been our best player the last 10-12 weeks.

    He would see significant cap # increases in 14 and 15, but assuming the Ravens gamble correctly that the salary cap is in for a dramatic boost in 2014, that might not be too bad at all.




  2. #62

    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    if he signs for 6 million thats great but there arent many 10 sack pass rushers that dont sign for bigger money than that in FA. Below are the OLBs in the top 50.

    2 Aldon Smith 19.5
    3 Von Miller 18.5
    5 Clay Matthews 13.0
    9 DeMarcus Ware 11.5
    14 Elvis Dumervil 11
    14 Anthony Spencer 11
    19 Justin Houston 10
    21 Shaun Phillips 9.5
    23 Tamba Hali 9.0
    23 Paul Kruger 9.0
    27 Ryan Kerrigan 8.5
    29 Robert Mathis 8.0
    41 Ahmad Brooks 6.5
    46 Akeem Ayers 6.0
    46 James Harrison 6.0

    he may compare the most to Shaun Phillips who signed 6/31 but six years ago or ahmad brooks who never had more than 7 but 4 seasons of consistent 6 +/- years before his 6/37 he signed this offseason. robert mathis signed for 4/36 this offseason after 4 years of 11.5 or 9.5. I think thats why his agent started there so if its somewhere in between that he falls, its likely to be more than 6 but not 9. 7 or 8 (considering someone will likely reach) is probably more likely than what brooks got, imo.
    -JAB




  3. #63

    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    I'll tell you what he is worth 11pm sunday night.....
    Way Down South in New Orleans




  4. #64
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    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Thanks LD for the great breakdown

    Only questions I wonder about is the "bonus" salary cap room we had this year from the Skins/Dallas

    1- we are even more squeezed from this years team to next because there is/was hidden wiggle room in the allotment of extra salary cap space to the other teams so the Players Union couldn't bark about overall salary reduction. Dunno how to figure this into my thinking

    2- somewhere in the back of my mind I thought their cap penalty was spread over 2 years, anybody know? If so... how much "extra" do we get for next year?
    To understand paranoid people better, follow them around.




  5. #65
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    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rxdoxx View Post
    Thanks LD for the great breakdown

    Only questions I wonder about is the "bonus" salary cap room we had this year from the Skins/Dallas

    1- we are even more squeezed from this years team to next because there is/was hidden wiggle room in the allotment of extra salary cap space to the other teams so the Players Union couldn't bark about overall salary reduction. Dunno how to figure this into my thinking

    2- somewhere in the back of my mind I thought their cap penalty was spread over 2 years, anybody know? If so... how much "extra" do we get for next year?
    Excellent point(s). I had forgotten about the Jerry Jones/Dan Snyder "I'm such a creative owner that I will try to cheat the system because the rules don't apply to me" benefit given to the other 26 or so teams (I believe 4 teams or so weren't penalized, but weren't rewarded with the allocation of that extra money). I don't believe that amount is significant though. It might be $1.2-$1.5 million per team.

    Ravor is the person to ask on that. I am trying to become a bit of a salary cap expert, but he is still wayyyyy ahead of me.




  6. #66
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    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Good post JAB. That Mathis contract is scary. He is older and breaking down, whereas Kruger is younger and getting better. After analyzing the Mathis contract (4 yr 36m, 17 guaranteed) I think Kruger might get 9 a year especially if we go all the way. I could see a 5 year/45 million, 20 guaranteed if we win the Super Bowl. I know most people will think that is high, but when you look at some other deals it could happen.




  7. #67
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    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensDomination View Post
    You could very well be right, but then again the Ravens would have to decide if they wanted to go with an unknown in Thompson or a proven commodity in Jones who could also catch a 70 yard TD in the playoffs rather than just be a return guy.
    Honestly I would hope we would go with Thompson or a combo of Thompson and Reed. We have to remember that the only reason we have Jacoby is because he had a David Reed-like spell of fumbling and Houston gave up on him. And it seems to me that Jacoby's ceiling as a receiver is as a third WR. He does not show the ability that Boldin or Smith have in contesting passes. My guess is that one or more of Doss, Thompson, Reed, and LaQuan can do at least as good at WR as Jacoby.

    Don't get me wrong-Jacoby has done a great job for us this year. But returner/3rd or 4th WR is less important a priority than ILB say or DT. Ellebrbe IMO is a much higher priority than Jacoby and if we have to cut Jacoby to sign Ellerbe then so be it.




  8. #68

    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Also, although Kruger seems like a good guy, it is a contract year and him turning it on, getting paid big money, and then coasting isn't outside of the realm of possibilities.




  9. #69

    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rxdoxx View Post
    2- somewhere in the back of my mind I thought their cap penalty was spread over 2 years, anybody know? If so... how much "extra" do we get for next year?
    They had the option of taking it all last year or splitting over 2 years. Most teams, the Ravens included, took it all last year because they are now allowed to carry over any unused Cap space from one year to the next. As such, there was no reason not to taking it all then - if there was anything left over, you just carry it forward anyway. Plus, they pretty much needed every penny of it in 2012.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




  10. #70

    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    1)By my calculations, we have 36 players under contract for next year + Ray Lewis' dead money. Their total cap hit is 99.86
    It all comes down to Flacco's contract.

    They presently have $108.329M committed to the Cap for 2013, which is for the 42 players that are presently under contract (they signed 5 guys a week or so ago). The Cap is projected to be around $120.9M. They have around $1.2M in 2012 Cap space that they can carry over.

    Once the RFAs and EFAs are tendered, and factoring in Ray's retirement, they should be around $6.5M under. They could have more if they don't offer RFA tenders to David Reed and Ramon Harewood (but you are eating into your depth by not doing so). McClellan is a ERFA, not a RFA.

    If they can get Flacco signed to a long term deal, that will pretty much eat up that space. If they need to franchise him, they'll need an additional $8.5M to do so. They can get $3.25M in additional Cap space from releasing Bobbie Williams and Matt Birk.

    Needless to say, getting Flacco re-signed will make the offseason much, much easier.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




  11. #71

    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Ravor.....question....what would prevent us from adding a year onto the contract of Leach, Boldin, and Jones and then converting some of their 2013 salary into a bonus to be prorated between 2013 and 2014? For instance, Leach counts $4.33 against the 2013 cap ($3 million salary and $1.33 bonus). What's to say we don't give him a 1 year/$2.7 (with a $700k signing bonus) million extension for 2014 and then convert $2 million of his 2013 salary into a bonus. We could apply $1 million of that bonus to 2013 and $1 million to 2014. That would reduce his 2013 cap # to $3.33 million ($1 million base salary + $1.33 bonus from original contract+ $1 million restructuring). His 2014 cap # would be $3.7 ($2 million base+$700k signing bonus+ $1 million restructured amount). That would free up $1 million for our 2013 cap and secure a good player for another year. I'm sure Leach would be on board because he would not only pocket the $700k for signing the one year extension, but would also pocket a $2 million bonus right now, rather than waiting to collect in on a game-by-game basis next year.

    Is this allowable under NFL salary cap rules?
    They could certainly do that, but it's got to be a good enough deal for the player to want to give up the shot at being a FA next year. The other concern is giving extensions to Boldin (who turning 33 this coming season) and Leach (who will turn 32).

    I could see it more with Leach, since FBs are a bit of a dying breed and he may not get much interest or an offer that pays him as well.

    Boldin OTOH would likely be looking for more than just one additional year, which usually means a larger bonus and larger base salaries, because he'd probably have more options on the open market if the team released him. With him, the Ravens leverage is far less, IMO.

    With both - and Ed Reed, too - their age is a problem because of the possibility for dead money from any new bonus that you give them.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




  12. #72
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    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Quote Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool View Post
    He's not an every down player. Hard to imagine a situational pass rusher getting 9 million a year. If I was a team I'd be weary of him in FA.
    ^^^^^^^
    This




  13. #73
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    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    They could certainly do that, but it's got to be a good enough deal for the player to want to give up the shot at being a FA next year. The other concern is giving extensions to Boldin (who turning 33 this coming season) and Leach (who will turn 32).

    I could see it more with Leach, since FBs are a bit of a dying breed and he may not get much interest or an offer that pays him as well.

    Boldin OTOH would likely be looking for more than just one additional year, which usually means a larger bonus and larger base salaries, because he'd probably have more options on the open market if the team released him. With him, the Ravens leverage is far less, IMO.

    With both - and Ed Reed, too - their age is a problem because of the possibility for dead money from any new bonus that you give them.

    As usual, good input. In a bit of rarity, I am going to mildly disagree with you regarding Boldin.

    I would say it's on the shy side of 50/50 that the Ravens bring him back at a $6 million cap number for 2013. If they do not, then obviously Boldin becomes a UFA.

    What is the market for a 33 year old WR nowadays? Unless you're Reggie Wayne (who signed his recent contract at age 33) or Andre Johnson (who will be 32 next year), we aren't talking $5 million/year plus contracts. I don't expect Boldin to compete in the least with Reggie Wayne money. I think, in the free agent market, he'd likely only get 2 years/7.5-9 million. Let's just say, for sake of solidifying my point, that Boldin's market rate is $8 million over two years with a $2 million signing bonus.


    So, knowing this, if I'm the Ravens, I go to Boldin and offer him a 1 year/$2.5 million contract extension(with a $900k signing bonus) for 2014.

    Now, you might be thinking why on earth Boldin would accept a deal like that. Well, it's not the 2014 amount, but rather that the extension guarantees him the $6 million he's due for 2013 under that original contract. Naturally, if he's cut, he sees none of that money. So, if you look at it from Quan's perspective on comparative terms, he is essentially getting $8.5 over two seasons, which is towards the top end of his free agent value anyways.

    The Ravens obviously would offer this extension under the understanding that Boldin would be restructuring his 2013 contract as well. And since it benefits both parties, I don't see that being an obstacle. The Ravens could convert $4.6 million of Quan's $6mil 2013 base salary into a bonus, and then split it between 2013 and 2014. This would make his 2013 cap number $5.2 million ($1.4 million base sal+ $2.3mil restructure bonus+ $1.5 bonus from original contract) and his 2014 cap # would be $4.8 ($1.6 base salary + $900k extension signing bonus+ $2.3 million restructure bonus).

    This clears up $2.3 million more from the 2013 cap and allows us to keep one of the top 10-12 players on our team for two more years. As evidenced with Jacoby and Graham, you can get a good solid free agent for that amount....or it could go towards retaining Ellerbe or Kruger or potentially not having to now cut Leach.

    From Boldin's perspective, this is a no brainer. Not only does he get to see that $6 million he is due for 2013, but he gets $4.6 of it in his pocket right away plus another $900k for the extension. So rather than getting $7.5-9 over two years on the open market with $2m in bonus money, he gets $8.5 with $5.5 in bonus money. And, if you look at it even more closely, with a base salary of $1.6 for 2014, it would be highly unlikely the Ravens would cut him, essentially guaranteeing that last year of the contract as well.

    They made a comment during the broadcast on Saturday about the Ravens being the oldest team in the NFL and that does make me nervous about signing our older players to extensions/restructures (and essentially copying the Steelers' mistakes), but with getting Reed, Chris Johnson, Kemoeatu, Lewis, Birk, B. Williams, and McKinnie (7 of our 8 oldest players) off the books in 2013, this doesn't loom as a massive concern. In fact, unless the Ravens go out and sign a last-minute, low-cost veteran like Johnson or Kemo, Boldin would be the second oldest player on the entire team and he turns 33 in October. Ayanbadejo would be the only player over the age of 32 at the start of next year.

    One last note, I don't think Jones is a candidate for any type of extension/restructure. He has all the leverage. His message to the Ravens will be to either pay him the $4 million or to cut him, so he can cash in on his big year to the tune of a 3 year contract somewhere else.




  14. #74
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    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Kruger won't get that much from anyone, but he's likely to get a better deal elsewhere than he will here. Frankly, as good as he has been, he's a luxury for us. We are paying huge money to Suggs on the other side and we just drafted Courtney Upshaw at the same position. If we were flush with cap space we could make a good effort to retain him, but pass rushers tend to make big money somewhere, and so will Kruger.

    I see us extending Boldin for another couple years to lower his cap hit. I would not expect us to bring back Ed Reed, not unless his market value winds up being really low and he decides to stick with what's familiar to him. I am worried that Ellerbe will get poached... I think we are more likely to bring him back than Kruger, but I could see us losing both of them. Leach would probably be asked for a restructure or reduced deal and possibly released otherwise. Cary Williams is gone.

    I don't see how the team would be able to make serious improvements in free agency with the huge cap numbers of Flacco, Rice, Suggs, and Ngata. There just won't be enough money to go around, when you consider our other moderately expensive stars (e.g. Yanda) and the expectation of contracts to be given out to young players (e.g. Torrey, Oher). We will simply need to continue doing well in the draft and bringing in low-priced free agents like Corey Graham to shoulder the load. There's no other way to keep our top stars together. None.




  15. #75
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    Re: Jason La Confora: Kruger looking for 9m/year...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrosin View Post
    I don't see how the team would be able to make serious improvements in free agency with the huge cap numbers of Flacco, Rice, Suggs, and Ngata. There just won't be enough money to go around, when you consider our other moderately expensive stars (e.g. Yanda) .
    Suggs' cap number is 13 which is huge. Ngata's is 11.5 and Yanda's is 8.5 Those are the only 3 contracts on the books for next year in excess of $6 million, other than Boldin's 7.5, which is not likely going to stay that amount either due to a release or restructure. Flacco's 2013 # may not be that crippling. I would expect the contract value to be around $14.5 to $16/year, with his 2013 cap figure being in the $7-9 range.

    Assuming:

    Birk is released/retires (saves $2.75)
    Williams is released (saves $1.2)
    Jacoby Jones is released-hard to say that happens for sure, but I'm just speaking theoretically (Saves $4)
    Boldin is extended/restructured (what I proposed today-saves $2.3)
    Suggs is extended/restructured (what I proposed on Monday. Saves roughly $2M)
    Reed is not brought back (have to consider that likely at this point). No cap penalty since he is a UFA.
    Flacco's first year cap # is $8.5 million
    Let's say we keep Jameel and Vonta at their current contracts for argument's sake

    Under this scenario, that leaves us roughly $13 million under the cap. That is enough room to handle the first year contract amounts of whatever market-average contract they'd need to give to Kruger. I'm not lobbying giving $9 million over 6 years to Kruger. However, I'm saying if it takes $32.5 over 5, we easily have the cap space to do it. Additionally, if Ellerbe is going to command $25 over 5, we can easily fit him in as well (if we're creative) and still have room for one more $2-$3 million free agent. Keep in mind that Kruger getting $6.5/year and Ellerbe getting $5/year doesn't mean the 2013 cap will reflect the total of their $11.5 million combined salaries. Their contracts would be structured so that their 2013 #s would probably be in a way that you only have about 2/3rds of their yearly average on the books in the first year.


    By my rough 12:26 AM spreadsheet tallies, if we could get Kruger for 5/32.5 with a $4.75 2013 cap # and get Ellerbe for 5/25 with a $3.5 2013 number, that would leave us roughly $4.5 under the cap (again, operating under the assumptions that we release/restructure the players above). You probably need to factor that $2 million of that will go to salary upgrades from the 2013 draft class, which still leaves us $2.5 to go after one solid Free Agent.




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