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  1. #85

    Re: Mike Carey (w Hochuili Bonus) to Ref Our Game



    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    What the hell?
    The hell here is that you are incorrect on this one, with all due respect my friend. That is what the hell.

    If there is a full collision, it is a forcible hit to the head. With the violence of that collision any part of his upper body hitting Wayne is going to be forcible.

    You are arguing intention.

    Intention doesn't matter.

    When he launched into Wayne, his helmet hit Wayne's.
    No. Wrong. The collision with his helmet came as Wayne's head reacted to his body being hit. Once again, that is outside of the rule AS IT IS STATED. Pollard did NOT "make forcible contact to the head or neck of the receiver" as I posted the rule from the NFL.

    He also did not "launch" into Wayne. If he had launched into him, he would have put his head down or left the ground. THAT would have been a justifiable call.

    He will in all likelyhood be fined and even Pollard knows it and said so to a reporter.
    Pollard also said he believed the hit was legal. He isn't saying he agrees with the fine, nor did he or Reed agree with the flag.

    Why do you constantly hear defensive players complaining about offensive guys lowering their heads when getting fined?

    It's because the league made that rule so that none of that other "intent" or "mistake" stuff is taken into account and they completely remove the "judgemental" stuff out of the officials hands.

    No defenseless receiver personal foul is a judgement call. Either the ref sees contact to the head or he doesn't. The only way the ref would have been wrong in this case is if no part of Pollard's body hit Wayne in the head.
    Yes it is. In this instance it is ABSOLUTELY a judgment call, and there is nothing you can tell me or show me in the rule that I quoted from the official NFL Communications site to prove otherwise. In fact, if that play was reviewable, the penalty would have been taken back.

    RIW, I understand the flags for when a player cracks another player with his helmet. Those are plays that result in concussions, and I get that. THIS PLAY was not that play. And the refs made a call based on how they FELT about the hit, and it was the wrong call.




  2. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    What the hell?

    If there is a full collision, it is a forcible hit to the head. With the violence of that collision any part of his upper body hitting Wayne is going to be forcible.

    You are arguing intention.

    Intention doesn't matter.

    When he launched into Wayne, his helmet hit Wayne's.

    He will in all likelyhood be fined and even Pollard knows it and said so to a reporter.

    Why do you constantly hear defensive players complaining about offensive guys lowering their heads when getting fined?

    It's because the league made that rule so that none of that other "intent" or "mistake" stuff is taken into account and they completely remove the "judgemental" stuff out of the officials hands.

    No defenseless receiver personal foul is a judgement call. Either the ref sees contact to the head or he doesn't. The only way the ref would have been wrong in this case is if no part of Pollard's body hit Wayne in the head.
    This.

    And folks are getting too hung up on the word forcible. It's been called time and time again. Helmet to helmet contact is always going to draw the flag.

    That's the rule and its been that way for, what, six seasons now?

    And just got done watching the Rice fumble replay. Still don't see whee Yanda had possession other than after the play was dead.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #87
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    Re: Mike Carey (w Hochuili Bonus) to Ref Our Game

    Quote Originally Posted by brown2RAVEN View Post
    Here is the only clip I could find of the non-recovery, as well as one writer's opinion.http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...2415--nfl.html
    The low-level CBS view clearly shows that #50 for the Colts never had the ball and Yanda recovered it. No matter what it looked like from other angles, that one is quite definitive.




  4. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by alien bird View Post
    The low-level CBS view clearly shows that #50 for the Colts never had the ball and Yanda recovered it. No matter what it looked like from other angles, that one is quite definitive.
    Thanks. Can't view it on the plane but will look later.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  5. #89

    Re: Mike Carey (w Hochuili Bonus) to Ref Our Game

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    The hell here is that you are incorrect on this one, with all due respect my friend. That is what the hell.



    No. Wrong. The collision with his helmet came as Wayne's head reacted to his body being hit. Once again, that is outside of the rule AS IT IS STATED. Pollard did NOT "make forcible contact to the head or neck of the receiver" as I posted the rule from the NFL.

    He also did not "launch" into Wayne. If he had launched into him, he would have put his head down or left the ground. THAT would have been a justifiable call.



    Pollard also said he believed the hit was legal. He isn't saying he agrees with the fine, nor did he or Reed agree with the flag.



    Yes it is. In this instance it is ABSOLUTELY a judgment call, and there is nothing you can tell me or show me in the rule that I quoted from the official NFL Communications site to prove otherwise. In fact, if that play was reviewable, the penalty would have been taken back.

    RIW, I understand the flags for when a player cracks another player with his helmet. Those are plays that result in concussions, and I get that. THIS PLAY was not that play. And the refs made a call based on how they FELT about the hit, and it was the wrong call.
    Dude, he is going to get fined and he does then it will show that it was a legit call.

    Every single fan, coach, player, nfl employee knows that the bottom line is that if a defenseless player is hit in the head, it's illegal.

    Period.

    Point blank.

    All that forcible and intent nonsense you seem to be stuck on does not matter.

    Ask Ed Reed.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  6. #90
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    Re: Mike Carey (w Hochuili Bonus) to Ref Our Game

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Thanks. Can't view it on the plane but will look later.
    It's the only view that shows what actually happened, and it also appears that no official had that view. If you watch, you'll see #50 fall on the ball and it immediately squirts out past the top of his helmet. That's when Yanda dives in and swallows it up. The commentary on TV (Phil Simms) pointed out that the Ravens recovered it, too, after looking at that view.

    What I don't understand is why that isn't a reviewable play. At least that's what they seemed to say on TV.




  7. #91

    Re: Mike Carey (w Hochuili Bonus) to Ref Our Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Dude, he is going to get fined and he does then it will show that it was a legit call.
    What?? No, it doesn't. It shows the league can't look like they are inconsistent.

    Every single fan, coach, player, nfl employee knows that the bottom line is that if a defenseless player is hit in the head, it's illegal.

    Period.

    Point blank.

    All that forcible and intent nonsense you seem to be stuck on does not matter.

    Ask Ed Reed.
    Yeah, ask Ed Reed. Reed has been fucked by those calls just as badly, even on plays where the replay clearly shows his helmet doesn't even make contact with the receiver's.

    I'm stuck on the written rule, which I will repeat for the third time none of which was violated by Pollard on that hit. You're stuck on something I can't figure out to be honest. And you will not move me on this. It was a bullshit call, as many of them have been this year.

    Period.

    Point blank.

    Call it nonsense you want. Doesn't change a thing. Hell next year receivers may as well just head-butt CB's and call it defenseless as you see it.




  8. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    What?? No, it doesn't. It shows the league can't look like they are inconsistent.



    Yeah, ask Ed Reed. Reed has been fucked by those calls just as badly, even on plays where the replay clearly shows his helmet doesn't even make contact with the receiver's.

    I'm stuck on the written rule, which I will repeat for the third time none of which was violated by Pollard on that hit. You're stuck on something I can't figure out to be honest. And you will not move me on this. It was a bullshit call, as many of them have been this year.

    Period.

    Point blank.
    Come on, man.

    They've been calling this rule consistently for YEARS now. It was a textbook helmet-to-helmet hit. It wasn't close. It wasn't even close to close.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #93

    Re: Mike Carey (w Hochuili Bonus) to Ref Our Game

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Come on, man.
    You can come on, man me all you want. Doesn't make you right in this situation. Sorry.

    They've been calling this rule consistently for YEARS now. It was a textbook helmet-to-helmet hit. It wasn't close. It wasn't even close to close.
    THIS is a helmet to helmet defenseless receiver hit:



    If you want to somehow equate Pollard's hit on Wayne to this, then I have nothing else for you.




  10. #94
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    LOL .... Whatever.

    I'm out of this one.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #95

    Re: Mike Carey (w Hochuili Bonus) to Ref Our Game

    On NFL Network, they showed the video of the first fumble from a different angle than what CBS showed during the game, and proved that the refs got the call wrong. All of the commentators agreed.




  12. #96

    Re: Mike Carey (w Hochuili Bonus) to Ref Our Game

    The helmet to helmet call was one of the most ticky-tack of those I've seen called. The contact came more as a result of gravity after the hit. Helmet contact of that sort could happen any time during a tackle. Where will it stop? If guys' helmets bump when they are already on the ground, are they gonna start flagging those soon?




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