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  1. #16
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    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit



    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    better question, why wasnt that guy the main focus of "investigation". I feel like McQueary is somehow skipped in this situation and to me his actions were far worse than those above him, who only had speculation and hearsay to go off of. Theres not much that would stop me from giving Sandusky a serious beating let alone call the cops on him at that point, mcqueary did neither.
    IIRC, he cut a deal for his testimony.
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  2. #17

    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    IIRC, he cut a deal for his testimony.
    which is BS imo, thats all. There were mistakes made in hindsight for sure by those above, so im not really concerned with that aspect of the NCAA, which i believe to not be directed at the real culprits, but McQueary should be looked upon much worse than he is. I dont think hes the first guy to come up when they say Penn St scandal or jerry sandusky yet he was the closest to the actual crime otherwise and failed to do anything substantial. He may not be the monster Sandusky is but hes no saint either.
    -JAB




  3. #18
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    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    which is BS imo, thats all. There were mistakes made in hindsight for sure by those above, so im not really concerned with that aspect of the NCAA, which i believe to not be directed at the real culprits, but McQueary should be looked upon much worse than he is. I dont think hes the first guy to come up when they say Penn St scandal or jerry sandusky yet he was the closest to the actual crime otherwise and failed to do anything substantial. He may not be the monster Sandusky is but hes no saint either.
    I don't think anyone is arguing he's a saint. In fact, I think he has said on more than one occasion that he wish he had done more.

    Sometimes prosecutors have to cut deals with the lesser of two evils. His testimony was key in putting that psycho pervert in jail.
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  4. #19
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    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    OKay, that turned my stomach. If I saw that shit I would have walked in and beat that sick old bastard to death.

    But. That doesn't say what he told Paterno he saw. Maybe I am just playing devils advocate a bit but those trying to lay a good portion of the blame at Paterno are misguided. And what I mean is, saying that Paterno should have known and done more is part of the reason the football program got such heavy sanctions.
    Last edited by NCRAVEN; 02-11-2013 at 03:12 PM. Reason: Clarification
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  5. #20
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    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Kind of. JoPa said, and McQueary later confirmed, McQueary wasn't clear in telling him what he saw, but did say he saw Sandusky in the shower with a boy and it was sexual.
    Yeah... that's difficult to have any judgement on anyone other than McQueeary. So I won't

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    I am not interested in defending JoPa. He had a lapse in judgment and it cost him dearly. The family can quibble about the legal specifics involved with his admission in front of a grand jury, but the bottom line is he volunteered he words "fondling" and "sexual" and was not prompted. My interest in this analysis of the Freeh report is as it relates to the NCAA and its sanctions.
    Agreed. I was just prompted to go down the JoePa route after seeing HR's post.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Maybe I am just playing devils advocate a bit but those trying to lay a good portion of the blame at Paterno are misguided. And what I mean is, saying that Paterno should have known and done more is part of the reason the football program got such heavy sanctions.
    The NCAA's actions are the same thing as giving credence to the "corporations are people" argument.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  7. #22

    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Paterno not going to the cops IS part of the reason for the NCAA sanctions. The fact he helped cover up a crime committed on PSU's campus, with the help of multiple higher ranking school officials, shows a lack of institutional control.

    PSU covered up a crime to protect its football team. There's no denying that. The NCAA handed down punishment because the crime(s):
    A) Involved members of PSU's coaching staff
    B) Occurred in the football team's building
    C) Was covered up to protect the image of the football team

    This was not an emotional decision by the NCAA. They could very well have handed PSU the death penalty but didn't.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    Paterno not going to the cops IS part of the reason for the NCAA sanctions. The fact he helped cover up a crime committed on PSU's campus, with the help of multiple higher ranking school officials, shows a lack of institutional control.

    PSU covered up a crime to protect its football team. There's no denying that. The NCAA handed down punishment because the crime(s):
    A) Involved members of PSU's coaching staff
    B) Occurred in the football team's building
    C) Was covered up to protect the image of the football team

    This was not an emotional decision by the NCAA. They could very well have handed PSU the death penalty but didn't.
    PSU didn't cover up anything. PSU isn't a person it is tens of thousands of people. A few individuals had tragic lapses in judgment, how is the logical conclusion from this that the university has a lack of institutional control? Actually, say Jopa and Co. went to authorities right away, how would that be a reflection of not a lack of institutional control?
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    PSU didn't cover up anything. PSU isn't a person it is tens of thousands of people. A few individuals had tragic lapses in judgment, how is the logical conclusion from this that the university has a lack of institutional control? Actually, say Jopa and Co. went to authorities right away, how would that be a reflection of not a lack of institutional control?
    Isn't that like saying BP wasn't responsible for the oil spill? After all, BP isn't a person. BP is tens of thousands of people.

    And I think you're kidding yourself if you really think there was no cover up. It's all in the emails.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Isn't that like saying BP wasn't responsible for the oil spill? After all, BP isn't a person. BP is tens of thousands of people.

    When you say BP is responsible, are you saying everyone under the BP umbrella is responsible? Of course not. For a news headline, sure, but in the case of PSU where we have names responsible casting blanket statements is lazy and unfair.

    In no way am I saying there wasn't a cover up, but you can't simply say "Penn State covered up the scandal", it's meaningless.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  11. #26

    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    When you say BP is responsible, are you saying everyone under the BP umbrella is responsible? Of course not. For a news headline, sure, but in the case of PSU where we have names responsible casting blanket statements is lazy and unfair.

    In no way am I saying there wasn't a cover up, but you can't simply say "Penn State covered up the scandal", it's meaningless.
    Yes, I can say that PSU covered it up. The head coach, the athletic director and the PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY were forced to resign after the findings of the Grand Jury. That's the three most powerful men on a college campus. Hell, not only did they cover it up but they let the sick bastard maintain an office on campus after, I repeat AFTER, the original allegations.

    When Miami was under investigation because of Shapiro (spelling) it was the University that was blamed for lack of institutional control. When the NCAA handed SMU the death penalty, it was for a lack of institutional control. I'm not sure about anybody else, but if there's a pedophile running around raping little boys in the locker room that sure hints at a glaring lack of institutional control.

    This is an opinion board, Sirdowski, so I don't say this lightly, but you're wrong. Sandusky was paid by PSU. Sandusky was allowed to maintain an office at PSU after he retired. Three people have been brought up on charges for their role in the cover-up. These are the actions of a University that put football above the safety of children.

    You say we have names of the people responsible, and you're right. Joe Paterno, head coach of the Penn State football team, covered up the sexual abuse of children. Graham Spanier, President of Penn State University, covered up the sexual abuse of children. Gary Schultz, Vice-President of Penn State University, covered up the sexual abuse of children. Timothy Curley, the Athletic Director for Penn State University, covered up the sexual abuse of children. These people are not secretaries, or custodians. They were the leaders of Penn State. They were the face of Penn State. They made the decisions for Penn State.

    So yeah, I feel pretty comfortable saying Penn State covered up decades of sexual abuse.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    if there's a pedophile running around raping little boys in the locker room that sure hints at a glaring lack of institutional control.,
    This is absolutely wrong. Sandusky was a grade 'A' sociopath. A masterfully insidious man who fooled everyone. Hiring a sociopath is a hint at a lack of institutional control? Absurd.




    This is an opinion board, Sirdowski, so I don't say this lightly, but you're wrong. Sandusky was paid by PSU. Sandusky was allowed to maintain an office at PSU after he retired. Three people have been brought up on charges for their role in the cover-up. These are the actions of a University that put football above the safety of children.
    So again, merely unknowingly hiring a sociopath is an indictment on the university?

    The guilty men involved deserve everything they get.


    They were the leaders of Penn State. They were the face of Penn State. They made the decisions for Penn State.
    And they should be tried accordingly, and are.

    So yeah, I feel pretty comfortable saying Penn State covered up decades of sexual abuse.

    Comfortable in the intellectually lazy sort of way I imagine?

    Picture a woman walking up to you sobbing, she tells you she is a higher up and integral leader at the school and she's devastated about what happened. You comfortably reply

    "yeah, Penn State really screwed up"

    with which she replies,
    "Excuse me, I have been here since Mr. Paterno was a young man, I am just as much Penn State as anyone, and I did nothing wrong"

    what are you going to say? Something even more arbitrary?

    "Oh well, I mean, your part of Penn State, but those men were Penn State, they were in charge"
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  13. #28
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    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    This is absolutely wrong. Sandusky was a grade 'A' sociopath. A masterfully insidious man who fooled everyone. Hiring a sociopath is a hint at a lack of institutional control? Absurd.
    Yes, hiring a sociopath is most definitely NOT a lack of institutional control.

    Keeping a known child rapist on the books, covering up his actions to protect the schools image and then quietly force him into the sunset via a pretty sweet parachute most certainly is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Comfortable in the intellectually lazy sort of way I imagine?

    Picture a woman walking up to you sobbing, she tells you she is a higher up and integral leader at the school and she's devastated about what happened. You comfortably reply

    "yeah, Penn State really screwed up"

    with which she replies,
    "Excuse me, I have been here since Mr. Paterno was a young man, I am just as much Penn State as anyone, and I did nothing wrong"

    what are you going to say? Something even more arbitrary?

    "Oh well, I mean, your part of Penn State, but those men were Penn State, they were in charge"
    I think you're projecting here.

    The leaders of every orgainized endeavor have been blamed for things since time and memorial.

    Sub commanders are responsible for the wrong doings of those under them.

    Presidents take the blame for crappy conditions in the country.

    CEO's are held accountable when companies get caught up in wrong doing.

    At PSU, we have actual proof, thanks to email exchanges, they covered up a horrific crime. Here is where your anaology falls apart even further. The leaders of the institution were actual actors in the bad behavior. Yet, you some how now want to parse words to make some point about what you think is an over reaching NCAA?

    I am not even sure what you're arguing anymore.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  14. #29
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    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yes, hiring a sociopath is most definitely NOT a lack of institutional control.

    Keeping a known child rapist on the books, covering up his actions to protect the schools image and then quietly force him into the sunset via a pretty sweet parachute most certainly is.




    I think you're projecting here.

    The leaders of every orgainized endeavor have been blamed for things since time and memorial.

    Sub commanders are responsible for the wrong doings of those under them.

    Presidents take the blame for crappy conditions in the country.

    CEO's are held accountable when companies get caught up in wrong doing.

    At PSU, we have actual proof, thanks to email exchanges, they covered up a horrific crime. Here is where your anaology falls apart even further. The leaders of the institution were actual actors in the bad behavior. Yet, you some how now want to parse words to make some point about what you think is an over reaching NCAA?

    I am not even sure what you're arguing anymore.
    Do you have a link to the emails? All I can find is stories about what the emails say...
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  15. #30
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    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I think you're projecting here.
    I know that's your go-to, but it really is insulting.


    The leaders of every orgainized endeavor have been blamed for things since time and memorial.
    Appeal to tradition? Your better than that.

    I disagree with this idea that there was a lack of institutional control, which is the main reason for the sanctions. No amount of control could have prevented a handful of individuals and a sociopath from the conniving that took place. The only reason I was forced to get into the semantics over the use of "PSU", was the use of the over simplification "Penn state covered it up, therefore Penn state deserved the sanctions". This issue isn't a simple one-to-one correspondence.

    The leaders of the institution were actual actors in the bad behavior.
    And the guilty men will and have received their criminal punishment. I will never agree with the superficiality behind the retributive justice of the sanctions over the entire university.


    It seems at this point it would be best to agree to disagree.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




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