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  1. #46
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    Yes, but because of this notion of corporate responsibility, superficial corporate punishment can take the place of real justice. I imagine that if one of those missiles did malfunction and wind up in Cleveland, individuals would have been held responsible. For that to need to take place in order for real justice to be served, IMO is wrong. Yes we are thankful nothing serious like that happened, but individuals should have been punished just the same.

    Critical thinking. Try it, it's fun.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  2. #47

    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    Again, you need to look at the whole picture. We were arguing about PSU being punished for the actions of its leaders while the leaders were also charged with a crime. Now you bring this article to our attention where a company is punished but not the people who perpetrated the crime. Not exactly the same thing.

    You see, the reason institutions (universities, corporations, etc...) are punished is so they don't let the same things happen over and over. We'll take the corporation from your latest example; National SemiConducter (NSC for short). They committed fraud against the federal government. The reason the corporation is punished is so that the people in charge won't do that again. Hit them in the bottom line and fat-cats tend to notice.

    Let's say NSC made 20 million with their contract. Obviously I don't know the exact number but for example purposes it's best to go simple. If the government fines them 30 million dollars, NSC made a net profit of negative 10 million dollars. Their board of directors and shareholders aren't going to be happy about that. The hope is, by punishment the higher ups are forced to take more care in making sure everything is done correctly, no laws are broken, faulty chips aren't being stuck in military grade weaponry. If you don't change the culture of an institution, the same mistakes are going to be repeated over and over.


    Actual thinking. Should always be the first step.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    Again, you need to look at the whole picture. We were arguing about PSU being punished for the actions of its leaders while the leaders were also charged with a crime. Now you bring this article to our attention where a company is punished but not the people who perpetrated the crime. Not exactly the same thing.
    Obviously the depth of the point I'm trying to make is eluding you. No I am not trying to specifically compare PSU. I'm talking about the notion of corporate responsibility in general. However, PSU does fall under this in a general sense, because I disagree with the notion of corporate responsibility.


    You see, the reason institutions (universities, corporations, etc...) are punished is so they don't let the same things happen over and over. We'll take the corporation from your latest example; National SemiConducter (NSC for short). They committed fraud against the federal government. The reason the corporation is punished is so that the people in charge won't do that again. Hit them in the bottom line and fat-cats tend to notice.
    The individuals who participated on the bottom were just as responsible for the crimes as those at the top. Unfortunately, corporate responsibility is undifferentiated.


    Let's say NSC made 20 million with their contract. Obviously I don't know the exact number but for example purposes it's best to go simple. If the government fines them 30 million dollars, NSC made a net profit of negative 10 million dollars. Their board of directors and shareholders aren't going to be happy about that. The hope is, by punishment the higher ups are forced to take more care in making sure everything is done correctly, no laws are broken, faulty chips aren't being stuck in military grade weaponry. If you don't change the culture of an institution, the same mistakes are going to be repeated over and over.
    A corporations actions are nothing but the cumulative actions of individuals. Higher ups aren't the only ones involved with the crimes taking place. Employees, fully aware of they were engaging in illegal activity, willingly participated. These people received zero punishment. So yes, the company may not repeat, but whose to say these individuals wouldn't? This sends a direct message that in particular legal situations where cumulative efforts result in crimes, individuals will not be held accountable for their actions, which is the entire purpose of the law. So while in some instances we may feel corporate responsibility is just when it is supplementary, because of its arbitrary nature, it can just as easily result in injustice.
    Last edited by Sirdowski; 02-18-2013 at 05:14 PM.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  4. #49

    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit



    Yes, the actions of individuals are their own. They should be punished. Show me anybody on this thread who has said otherwise.

    The institution is punished so they'll begin policing their members and these sort of actions won't be repeated. 100 employees at NSC committed fraud. Let's say they were punished for that crime. What's stopping NSC from just hiring 100 more people to do the same thing? Corporations tend to be sort of unfeeling bastards, so it's not like they're sitting around lamenting more people going to jail.

    Since you have trouble understanding, I'll spell it out.

    The individuals who broke the rules should be punished. The institution should be punished so the folks replacing the original people don't do the same damned thing.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
    ProFootballMock




  5. #50
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    Re: NCAA Responds to Penn. Governor's Lawsuit

    This is going no where.

    Thanks darb, it's been... fun.


    Oh, highly recommend this BTW:

    http://www.amazon.com/Nonsense-Herri.../dp/0975366262
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




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