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Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
Yea i would like to see them extend either Q or Jones. Letting them both walk would put a serious dent in our wr corps. Id actually be cool with extending both of them. Its the best way to get those cap hits down.
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12-28-2012, 07:43 PM #26Hall Of Fame Poster
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Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
Very well-thought out post. I think Boldin's future depends not only on his contract and cap hit, but also on how the team feels about the WR depth chart on the whole. Is Boldin worth, say, a 5.1m cap hit next year? Well, maybe, but everything is relative. Seeing the flashes Doss has shown this year and Torrey Smith's ability to take over games at time, perhaps they go into 2013 willing to bank on those two continuing to grow and evolve as their top 2 WRs.
Jacoby Jones is the other factor here. He's been fantastic as a returner and made good contributions as the #3 WR. We know he won't be back next year on his current contract, but they could certainly renegotiate and extend. Is Jacoby more valuable to this team as a RS and #3 WR than Boldin as a #1 WR? Particularly considering they have Doss waiting in the wings to take over Boldin's role?
Of the two, I think I'd prefer to have Jacoby back and draft a mid-round guy to round out the depth chart. Not only does that save money, it pushes our age at WR down substantially and gives Doss a chance, which IMO he's earned with his flashes this year.
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12-28-2012, 08:35 PM #27
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Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
B-more Ravor will probably be putting out a cap update in the next few months that will highlight some big contracts where restructuring or cutting will help big time.
As far as restructuring, for the most part I'm not a fan. It's a move that screams more "the window is closing" than building a perennial contender. Some restructures are simple number moving and we tend to do those, but the ones that create immediate cap at the price of future caps is generally not a game we play. Ozzie still has nightmares of 2002, when he was forced to GUT the team because all those FA deals he made in 99, 2000, 2001 came back to bite him.
That's why in 2010, you saw Heap, McGahee, Gregg, and Mason all get cut. I'm sure we could've restructured their deals, but it would've made these years where Rice and Flacco were up even WORSE.
Look no further than Pitt, who is 28 mil over the cap BEFORE any deals..
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“When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.
Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!
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Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
If you cut Q and extend Jones, you lessen his cap hit without worsening the situation.
I hope they can keep Q, too. I've been a big fan since before he came to Baltimore, and that despite his playing for the Bidwells. I love how he plays the position.
That's why I was in such shock and dismay with his un-Q-like play recently before the Giants game. I was ecstatic to see the return of the secondary smasher I'd grown to love.
The big question is, if you're Ozzie, do you see Q on the team and contributing in 2014. Do you see Jones? Of the two, Jones is probably the safer bet. He's younger, and he doesn't play wide-out like an angry fullback. The one you can't see being a big contributor in 2014 (let alone beyond) is the one you might have to make a cap casualty in 2013.
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12-28-2012, 11:58 PM #29
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Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
I wish we had gotten Tandon Doss a heavy role on the offense towards the end here. He's probably the hinge on whether you have to bring back Q or not. If Doss is ready to contribute on an every game basis, you can probably let Q walk. But he hasn't quite shown he's ready yet, so you can't tell.
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“When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.
Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!
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12-29-2012, 11:17 AM #30
Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
I think that the confusion is that people want to extend Jones(which is NOT a simple restructure as you point out) while they don't find it to be a prudent move to give Anquan 3 or 4 more years. Your plan for Q is valid, and I wouldn't put it past the FO to do somethign similar.
Jones and Leach(te forgotten man in this discussion) BOTH need extensions. Both fit into this team very well and deserve at least 3 or34 more years, which should lower each of their cap numbers. I wouldn't mind simple restructures for Ngata and Suggs, as wel as a paycut for Jameel. Alll of this might make keeping Q around at a lower number feasible.
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12-29-2012, 11:46 AM #31
You are right, I said restructure for Jacoby when I meant extension.
I'd be very OK with a wholesale youth movement. Despite how great they've been, move on from Lewis, Reed, Boldin and Birk. It's going to happen eventually so rip the band aid off rather than holding on too long.
For better or worse the identity of the team has to be Suggs, Ngata, Rice and *gulp* Flacco.
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12-29-2012, 12:01 PM #32
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Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
Jones can be an extension candidate, no way you let him go. He is WAY to valuable and should have more 2TD's (officiating); he is a legit #2 man and we have been wanting a decent return man for years now.
Boldin at 6 Million is cap releif, will likely be a cap cut. He can only get open in zone coverage and not man to man. He can only play in the slot these days in press coverage. His targets to completion ration is pretty bad for the patterns he runs. You can cut him and try to resign him. I think Doss will do BETTER than Boldin given reps, he's faster with better hands and it will be his 3rd year. If you go to the games and watch Boldin he really cant create separation much at all. Extending him makes no sense.
They need Boldins 6 million, Lewis's 5.4 Million and of course Birks and Bobbie Williams $ to resign Cary Williams and Kruger. Plus, remember the Ravens have a whopping 11 draft picks this draft, so that gives them plenty of options. Given they give Joe a longterm deal (more cap freindly) the Ravens with good health should be better next season than this one.
I doubt teams will be lining up to sign Boldin or Lewis, but could see some team giving Ed Reed a decent 2 year deal even at his age.
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Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
I like your optimism, but I don't see Cary Williams back next year. He's played decently for us this year, but he is not worth the $6-8 million/year he will get in free agency. Hometown discount doesn't seem like an option with him either. Right now, assuming Webb is healthy and Jimmy can ever get healthy, we have four CBs under contract next year who are all capable guys. Brown, Graham, and Smith are all good contract values and we still have to see what Asa Jackson can do.
I think the more likely option is we draft a CB with one of our 11 picks, sign a veteran CB for depth in the $1-2 million range...and run with those two guys in combination with the five I mentioned above.
I think Kruger and Ellerbe are more realistic re-signing targets.
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Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
Also, with respect to the high # of draft picks, particularly in late rounds, I'd really like to see the Ravens trade up big time this year. I think we already have like 35 or 36 of our 53 who are in their first three years in the league. A lot of these are so-so talents and decent depth guys and, given their team control for a few more years, are solid filler type guys for a while. We don't need more rookie fillers. We need impact rookies.
I'd rather see us package a few of these 11 picks and maybe try to move up to the point where we can either move up in the first or second round or maybe acquire an extra 3rd or extra 4th round picks. I'd rather see us walk away with 4-6 impact players than 3-4 impact players and a bunch of depth guys. We've had such insane success at finding solid depth in the undrafted FA market, that I'd rather us use that route to round out our roster than having a bunch of late-rounders.
Look at all the UFAs on our roster right now
Omar Brown
Laquan Williams (IR)
Adrian Hamilton
Jameel McClain (IR)
Dannell Ellerbe
Josh Bynes
Bobby Rainey (IR)
Emmanuel Cook (IR)
Michael McAdoo (IR)
Albert McClellan
Deonte Thompson
Bryan Hall
Justin Tucker
If you compare their production with our late round draft picks, I think you can argue the undrafted guys have actually contributed more.Last edited by LukeDaniel; 12-29-2012 at 12:56 PM.
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12-29-2012, 01:20 PM #36
Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room
If we can get a third and fourth comp pick, that gives us great manoeuvrability. We can use our original third and fourth to move up in the first, or trade back in the first to second then use them to get a third 2nd round pick and three potential day 1 starters.
Also have the option of making a real bold move. Our first 2nd 3rd 4th and move way up in the first round. And still have a third and 4th round pick, just really lose a second but you could move up and get a potential legit left tackle, or Hankins for nose, teo for ilb, heck even one of the top pass rushers if Kruger goes.
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