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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I think that the confusion is that people want to extend Jones(which is NOT a simple restructure as you point out) while they don't find it to be a prudent move to give Anquan 3 or 4 more years. Your plan for Q is valid, and I wouldn't put it past the FO to do somethign similar.


    Jones and Leach(te forgotten man in this discussion) BOTH need extensions. Both fit into this team very well and deserve at least 3 or34 more years, which should lower each of their cap numbers. I wouldn't mind simple restructures for Ngata and Suggs, as wel as a paycut for Jameel. Alll of this might make keeping Q around at a lower number feasible.
    You are right, I said restructure for Jacoby when I meant extension.

    I'd be very OK with a wholesale youth movement. Despite how great they've been, move on from Lewis, Reed, Boldin and Birk. It's going to happen eventually so rip the band aid off rather than holding on too long.

    For better or worse the identity of the team has to be Suggs, Ngata, Rice and *gulp* Flacco.

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk




  2. #32
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Couldn't possibly disagree much more on Ngata. He was playing DPOY level football to start each of the last 2 seasons, and only slowed due to nagging injuries he CHOSE to play through,. I'm all for getting deeper into his deal.

    Vonta Leach is another good option for an extension to lower the cap. Jacoby Jones fits that to a T as well.
    Completely agree. Jacoby and Vonte are two prime examples of guys who we can re-sign longer term and reduce the cap number via bonuses.




  3. #33

    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Jones can be an extension candidate, no way you let him go. He is WAY to valuable and should have more 2TD's (officiating); he is a legit #2 man and we have been wanting a decent return man for years now.

    Boldin at 6 Million is cap releif, will likely be a cap cut. He can only get open in zone coverage and not man to man. He can only play in the slot these days in press coverage. His targets to completion ration is pretty bad for the patterns he runs. You can cut him and try to resign him. I think Doss will do BETTER than Boldin given reps, he's faster with better hands and it will be his 3rd year. If you go to the games and watch Boldin he really cant create separation much at all. Extending him makes no sense.

    They need Boldins 6 million, Lewis's 5.4 Million and of course Birks and Bobbie Williams $ to resign Cary Williams and Kruger. Plus, remember the Ravens have a whopping 11 draft picks this draft, so that gives them plenty of options. Given they give Joe a longterm deal (more cap freindly) the Ravens with good health should be better next season than this one.

    I doubt teams will be lining up to sign Boldin or Lewis, but could see some team giving Ed Reed a decent 2 year deal even at his age.




  4. #34
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    Jones can be an extension candidate, no way you let him go. He is WAY to valuable and should have more 2TD's (officiating); he is a legit #2 man and we have been wanting a decent return man for years now.

    Boldin at 6 Million is cap releif, will likely be a cap cut. He can only get open in zone coverage and not man to man. He can only play in the slot these days in press coverage. His targets to completion ration is pretty bad for the patterns he runs. You can cut him and try to resign him. I think Doss will do BETTER than Boldin given reps, he's faster with better hands and it will be his 3rd year. If you go to the games and watch Boldin he really cant create separation much at all. Extending him makes no sense.

    They need Boldins 6 million, Lewis's 5.4 Million and of course Birks and Bobbie Williams $ to resign Cary Williams and Kruger. Plus, remember the Ravens have a whopping 11 draft picks this draft, so that gives them plenty of options. Given they give Joe a longterm deal (more cap freindly) the Ravens with good health should be better next season than this one.

    I doubt teams will be lining up to sign Boldin or Lewis, but could see some team giving Ed Reed a decent 2 year deal even at his age.
    I like your optimism, but I don't see Cary Williams back next year. He's played decently for us this year, but he is not worth the $6-8 million/year he will get in free agency. Hometown discount doesn't seem like an option with him either. Right now, assuming Webb is healthy and Jimmy can ever get healthy, we have four CBs under contract next year who are all capable guys. Brown, Graham, and Smith are all good contract values and we still have to see what Asa Jackson can do.

    I think the more likely option is we draft a CB with one of our 11 picks, sign a veteran CB for depth in the $1-2 million range...and run with those two guys in combination with the five I mentioned above.


    I think Kruger and Ellerbe are more realistic re-signing targets.




  5. #35
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Also, with respect to the high # of draft picks, particularly in late rounds, I'd really like to see the Ravens trade up big time this year. I think we already have like 35 or 36 of our 53 who are in their first three years in the league. A lot of these are so-so talents and decent depth guys and, given their team control for a few more years, are solid filler type guys for a while. We don't need more rookie fillers. We need impact rookies.

    I'd rather see us package a few of these 11 picks and maybe try to move up to the point where we can either move up in the first or second round or maybe acquire an extra 3rd or extra 4th round picks. I'd rather see us walk away with 4-6 impact players than 3-4 impact players and a bunch of depth guys. We've had such insane success at finding solid depth in the undrafted FA market, that I'd rather us use that route to round out our roster than having a bunch of late-rounders.

    Look at all the UFAs on our roster right now

    Omar Brown
    Laquan Williams (IR)
    Adrian Hamilton
    Jameel McClain (IR)
    Dannell Ellerbe
    Josh Bynes
    Bobby Rainey (IR)
    Emmanuel Cook (IR)
    Michael McAdoo (IR)
    Albert McClellan
    Deonte Thompson
    Bryan Hall
    Justin Tucker

    If you compare their production with our late round draft picks, I think you can argue the undrafted guys have actually contributed more.
    Last edited by LukeDaniel; 12-29-2012 at 12:56 PM.




  6. #36
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Also, with respect to the high # of draft picks, particularly in late rounds, I'd really like to see the Ravens trade up big time this year. I think we already have like 35 or 36 of our 53 who are in their first three years in the league. A lot of these are so-so talents and decent depth guys and, given their team control for a few more years, are solid filler type guys for a while. We don't need more rookie fillers. We need impact rookies.

    I'd rather see us package a few of these 11 picks and maybe try to move up to the point where we can either move up in the first or second round or maybe acquire an extra 3rd or extra 4th round picks. I'd rather see us walk away with 4-6 impact players than 3-4 impact players and a bunch of depth guys. We've had such insane success at finding solid depth in the undrafted FA market, that I'd rather us use that route to round out our roster than having a bunch of late-rounders.

    Look at all the UFAs on our roster right now

    Omar Brown
    Laquan Williams (IR)
    Adrian Hamilton
    Jameel McClain (IR)
    Dannell Ellerbe
    Josh Bynes
    Bobby Rainey (IR)
    Emmanuel Cook (IR)
    Michael McAdoo (IR)
    Albert McClellan
    Deonte Thompson
    Bryan Hall
    Justin Tucker

    If you compare their production with our late round draft picks, I think you can argue the undrafted guys have actually contributed more.
    If we can get a third and fourth comp pick, that gives us great manoeuvrability. We can use our original third and fourth to move up in the first, or trade back in the first to second then use them to get a third 2nd round pick and three potential day 1 starters.

    Also have the option of making a real bold move. Our first 2nd 3rd 4th and move way up in the first round. And still have a third and 4th round pick, just really lose a second but you could move up and get a potential legit left tackle, or Hankins for nose, teo for ilb, heck even one of the top pass rushers if Kruger goes.




  7. #37

    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Also, with respect to the high # of draft picks, particularly in late rounds, I'd really like to see the Ravens trade up big time this year. I think we already have like 35 or 36 of our 53 who are in their first three years in the league. A lot of these are so-so talents and decent depth guys and, given their team control for a few more years, are solid filler type guys for a while. We don't need more rookie fillers. We need impact rookies.

    I'd rather see us package a few of these 11 picks and maybe try to move up to the point where we can either move up in the first or second round or maybe acquire an extra 3rd or extra 4th round picks. I'd rather see us walk away with 4-6 impact players than 3-4 impact players and a bunch of depth guys. We've had such insane success at finding solid depth in the undrafted FA market, that I'd rather us use that route to round out our roster than having a bunch of late-rounders.

    Look at all the UFAs on our roster right now

    Omar Brown
    Laquan Williams (IR)
    Adrian Hamilton
    Jameel McClain (IR)
    Dannell Ellerbe
    Josh Bynes
    Bobby Rainey (IR)
    Emmanuel Cook (IR)
    Michael McAdoo (IR)
    Albert McClellan
    Deonte Thompson
    Bryan Hall
    Justin Tucker

    If you compare their production with our late round draft picks, I think you can argue the undrafted guys have actually contributed more.
    I can see your point, trading up. The Ravens at will likely get a 4th for JJ and possibly a 4th for Grubbs or even 3rd. So a 1, 2, maybe 2 3rds, 2 4ths, and ??????. 6 selections in 4 rounds is pretty good. But, I am for trading your tradeable picks to target players you desire. Yes, 11 guys arent going to make the team and trading away 2-4 of those picks to improve your slotting makes good sense. The Ravens for sure have alot of good options come draft day. I have the feeling this draft will lay a good foundation for the next few years and is a very important reloading draft.




  8. #38
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Well all teams can do that, of course, but the problem is that at some point you have to pay the money against the cap. You can't keep pushing stuff into the future to create breathing room. I mean Pitt are hit their heads on that last off-season and I think they are going to do it again this season, they restructured to create space but that just means they are gonna be hard up next year.




  9. #39
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    I am still hoping the Ravens break tendency and get Joe's deal done before being forced to pull out the franchise tag. It is really best for everyone involved, even Joe. If Jason Cole is correct, firing Cam might make Flacco a little more willing to negotiate.




  10. #40
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Also, with respect to the high # of draft picks, particularly in late rounds, I'd really like to see the Ravens trade up big time this year. I think we already have like 35 or 36 of our 53 who are in their first three years in the league. A lot of these are so-so talents and decent depth guys and, given their team control for a few more years, are solid filler type guys for a while. We don't need more rookie fillers. We need impact rookies.

    I'd rather see us package a few of these 11 picks and maybe try to move up to the point where we can either move up in the first or second round or maybe acquire an extra 3rd or extra 4th round picks. I'd rather see us walk away with 4-6 impact players than 3-4 impact players and a bunch of depth guys. We've had such insane success at finding solid depth in the undrafted FA market, that I'd rather us use that route to round out our roster than having a bunch of late-rounders.

    Look at all the UFAs on our roster right now

    Omar Brown
    Laquan Williams (IR)
    Adrian Hamilton
    Jameel McClain (IR)
    Dannell Ellerbe
    Josh Bynes
    Bobby Rainey (IR)
    Emmanuel Cook (IR)
    Michael McAdoo (IR)
    Albert McClellan
    Deonte Thompson
    Bryan Hall
    Justin Tucker

    If you compare their production with our late round draft picks, I think you can argue the undrafted guys have actually contributed more.
    My only fear is that the Ravens have really struggled to find that big time impact player, really since drafting Ray Rice. Webb if healthy could be one and Torry has show flashes but we really haven't been able to find that Ed Reed or Todd Heap, corner stone guys since 2008. It's not like they haven't been out there and it's not like they have all been unavailable when we picked.




  11. #41
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    My only fear is that the Ravens have really struggled to find that big time impact player, really since drafting Ray Rice. Webb if healthy could be one and Torry has show flashes but we really haven't been able to find that Ed Reed or Todd Heap, corner stone guys since 2008. It's not like they haven't been out there and it's not like they have all been unavailable when we picked.
    We really need to hit one this year. Jimmy Smith was supposed to be one of them, but has totally under whelmed in his second season, after such a promising rookie year down the stretch.




  12. #42
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    My only fear is that the Ravens have really struggled to find that big time impact player, really since drafting Ray Rice. Webb if healthy could be one and Torry has show flashes but we really haven't been able to find that Ed Reed or Todd Heap, corner stone guys since 2008. It's not like they haven't been out there and it's not like they have all been unavailable when we picked.
    Your points are valid. I would argue that the reason for this is we always seem to be trading back. The Ravens have traditionally drated extremely, but since the 2009 draft, they've seemed more focused on value than hitting that one big player. In 2009, Oher slid a bit until we picked him up. 2010 was the draft where we "stole" Kindle, a projected top 15 pick, somewhere in the the 30s and got Cody, a projected top 35 pick, in the late 50s. Those seemed like great values at the time, but I think that was based more on the strategic factor of where a player was drafted with respect to where you thought they'd be drafted. I think we should have looked at WHY they were sliding a little more closely. Our Front Office is so enchanted with these sliding value type players, that I think it's hurt us in terms of obtaining true star quality. Yes, we've hit pretty well in the mid-to-late rounds with guys who slide---- who we bring in and give us instant depth.

    At some point, you need to draft a player and announce him to your fanbase as a future star. It's harder to do that when you trade down out of your first round spot to eventually get a player (Kindle, Upshaw) or draft a sliding player (Oher, Cody, Jimmy Smith). It's hard to point out a lot of flaws with our drafts, but that is it right there.


    With that in mind, if we do indeed get a 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 or even a 1,2,3,3,4,4 +5 other picks from rounds 5-7....I'd rather package a few of them and move up and get a first rounder and 2 seconds or even a first rounder and 3 second rounders, which isn't out of the question at all when you calculate all that built up draft-day trade equity. Heck, maybe we could even get a team like Jacksonville to give us a 4th or 5th rounder for Cody and we can turn that pick into someone useful.




  13. #43
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Also, one more thing...help me out here.

    I know we have never been able to trade our 5th round compensatory picks. Does the same hold for any potential 3rd or 4th round compensatories this year?




  14. #44
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    You can't trade comp picks
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by BigRob View Post
    Bucs were able to do it now because they still had a huge amount of money under the cap for 2012. You have to have the room under the current cap year to do this. The Raven's do not.
    Exactly. Normally a "restructure" create more present Cap space at the expense do future Cap space.

    In this case, for the Bucs, they've actually done the opposite. They've taken money that was to be due next year and paid it as a Roster Bonus this year, thus making it all count in 2012 (Roster Bonuses are not prorated). By doing so, they've used up their excess 2012 Cap space.

    The Ravens have only around $1M in Cap space presently, so they're not able to pull off a move like this.
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