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Thread: Black Monday

  1. #16

    Re: Black Monday



    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    I think you guys are being unfair to Pees. The defense has dealt with a lot this year starting with FA defections and diminished performance from age/injury. Pees has had a short hand all year long.
    I agree, the ONLY healthy starter all year was Kruger.




  2. #17

    Re: Black Monday

    Some of the names being tossed around are very attractive. If I were Steve B, I would hire Norv Turner and Jack del Rio or Dick Nolan in a hearbeat.

    Defending Pees in the face of the worst defensive performance in Ravens history? No thanks ... he does not deserve a 2nd chance.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  3. #18
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    Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Some of the names being tossed around are very attractive. If I were Steve B, I would hire Norv Turner and Jack del Rio or Dick Nolan in a hearbeat.

    Defending Pees in the face of the worst defensive performance in Ravens history? No thanks ... he does not deserve a 2nd chance.
    Have you seen some of the starting players on that defense this year? A ton of undrafted players or ''special team aces''.




  4. #19
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    Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by PGCountyRaven85 View Post
    I was hoping Monachino got a shot. He might've brought some of that Italian/aggressive swagger that left the Ravens defense when Pagano left.
    I second this, not sure if he's had as big a role this year, but last year, he was ALL over the SoundFX Ravens v 49ers footage, calling out stuff from the booth. Sounded like Pagano's right hand guy.

    I think the only way Pees goes is if they are bringing a big name to replace him. Nolan, Rex Ryan, maybe Del Rio (that one to me is least likely). Otherwise, Pees gets at least another year to prove himself.

    I think the next two weeks will truly determine Caldwell's chances. After the Denver game, we were mostly sure he wasn't going to work out. After the Giants game, we're mostly sure he's the answer to our prayers. The truth is somewhere in the middle, and two weeks against two decent Ds should craft a better response.
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  5. #20
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    Re: Black Monday

    Lol @ people defending Pees just because of injuries. Sure I'd give him a pass if we slid a few spots but we slid 2 dozen. Sorry injuries don't account for all that.

    In VERY recent years another DC had Reed out for half a year, Ray out for a half dozen games(well 4 but he still wasnt at full speed the next 2) an age'd JJ and another age'd guy in Redding. Mix in Ellerbe not playing up to the level he has this year and is capable of, a couple of no name or rookie CB's and well you get the point. Sorry Pees got handed a top 10 defense at WORST with a ton of young talent to mold with aid from Ray and Ed and failed miserably. Early in the season the only guy out was Suggs.

    Sorry again, no pass from me. But I will agree the front office will prob retain him unfortunatly.




  6. #21
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    Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06 View Post
    Lol @ people defending Pees just because of injuries. Sure I'd give him a pass if we slid a few spots but we slid 2 dozen. Sorry injuries don't account for all that.

    In VERY recent years another DC had Reed out for half a year, Ray out for a half dozen games(well 4 but he still wasnt at full speed the next 2) an age'd JJ and another age'd guy in Redding. Mix in Ellerbe not playing up to the level he has this year and is capable of, a couple of no name or rookie CB's and well you get the point. Sorry Pees got handed a top 10 defense at WORST with a ton of young talent to mold with aid from Ray and Ed and failed miserably. Early in the season the only guy out was Suggs.

    Sorry again, no pass from me. But I will agree the front office will prob retain him unfortunatly.
    That same coordinator had the DPOY for the ENTIRE year, along with a very experienced OLB on the other side to provide a strong pass rush.

    Our pass rush for the first half of the year was a rookie and a guy who'd never started before.

    Our CBs last year were a Pro Bowl snub and a suprising star UDFA vet. This year, we lost our Pro Bowl snub after a few games, replaced by a 1st round question mark, who ALSO got injured shortly after.

    The DL last year might've had an "aging" Redding...but Redding was clearly better than Art Jones/Pernell McPhee. Jones has only heated up in the 2nd half of the year, along with Kruger.

    You can mention Ellerbe, but he's also missed a good chunk of time with injuries.
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  7. #22

    Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post

    Defending Pees in the face of the worst defensive performance in Ravens history? No thanks ... he does not deserve a 2nd chance.
    Sorry, but no. We're on pace to give up 342 pts this year. Arguably our "worst" performance ever (at least, not counting our inagural season, when we had no discerable defensive talent) came in 2007, when we gave up a whopping 384 points.

    Remind me again, who was our DC that year?

    You really can't fairly judge a DC on one single, injury-plagued season.




  8. #23

    Re: Black Monday

    I was on the replace Pees bandwagon, but the D seems to be getting better lately despite all the injuries.

    I would give him another season to see what he can do when not facing an injury-plagued season.




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    Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Have you seen some of the starting players on that defense this year? A ton of undrafted players or ''special team aces''.
    IMO a major (if not the main) reason for the precipitous drop-off in defensive performance is that the bottom half of the roster was chosen mainly for special teams performance rather than ability to step in for starters on the O or the D. That's not unreasonable if the team stays mostly injury-free, because a backup's main ability to affect the outcome of a game is via ST play. But when the injuries pile up, the drop off in performance can be drastic.




  10. #25

    Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Have you seen some of the starting players on that defense this year? A ton of undrafted players or ''special team aces''.
    Excuses.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  11. #26

    Re: Black Monday

    I think I remember hearing or reading somewhere that the Ravens offense has the most three-and-outs in the league. If people just use yards as their gauge for defense than that surely has something to do with it if the defense has to keep going on the field. They're definitely near the top of the league if they do not have the most.




  12. #27
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    Re: Black Monday

    Both Del Rio and Nolan already have DC jobs. Neither is getting fired. Neither is going to leave for a lateral move.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  13. #28
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    Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Excuses.
    Yeah, Pees had Dumerville and Von Miller as his edge rushers when he walked in to this defense.

    Actually he had Paul Kruger and Courtney Upshaw.

    That's what Del Rio inherited when he took over the DC job over in Denver. Not to mention he has a future HOFer (Champ Baily) at CB, and two other really solid corners, plus benefitting from an offense lead by Peyton Manning who can be the defenses best friend.

    Chuck Pagano had A DPOY as his edge rusher, an experienced Vet on the other side, and possibly the best edge setter in football. Haloti Ngata healthy, Cory Redding a decent DE, and then pretty much what Pees has as his starting front 7 as good depth and rotational players.




  14. #29
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    Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Both Del Rio and Nolan already have DC jobs. Neither is getting fired. Neither is going to leave for a lateral move.


    And even if they were offered lateral move jobs, their current teams could block them.

    I'm not crazy about Dean Pees, but you do have to wonder about the injuries being a MAJOR reason for the defensive issues this season. Still, the red zone defense is damn good. My one big BIG gripe about Dean Pees is not using press-man techniques at corner. I really feel that guys like Cary and Jimmy work best when they are in the face at the line of scrimmage. I think that Cary and everyone lining up something like 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage is a really stupid idea.

    Say what you want, but Chuck P knew how to put the defensive guys in position to succeed and he got a lot out of these guys. Cody and McClain looked like legitimate starters under Chuck P. It is very strange that those guys went from being starters to getting bowled over by every other offensive lineman.
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  15. #30
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    Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post


    And even if they were offered lateral move jobs, their current teams could block them.

    I'm not crazy about Dean Pees, but you do have to wonder about the injuries being a MAJOR reason for the defensive issues this season. Still, the red zone defense is damn good. My one big BIG gripe about Dean Pees is not using press-man techniques at corner. I really feel that guys like Cary and Jimmy work best when they are in the face at the line of scrimmage. I think that Cary and everyone lining up something like 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage is a really stupid idea.
    This is pretty much how I feel about Pees too. I'm not a fan of him, however, the criticism of him is really unwarranted, look at the players he's had to deal with.




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