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  1. #25

    Re: Average at best draft?



    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Thanks, Kris. I don't disagree with your assessment. I had a reaction to "average at best" not in that I disagreed, per se, more that was perplexed -- I could see the argument that it was fairly weak in that no one outside of Baltimore will look at it and think, "wow,' but I could also see the argument that it was one of the strongest from a next-man-up/budget-management point of view.

    That's what made me wanbt to sort of think out loud with my post to figure out where ended up on the question. I guess I haven't really decided still. I think I'd call it average to above average, but not great. Probably a "B" but not a "C" at best kind of draft.

    For those who look for grabbing a real impact player, and that's the way they judge good drafts, I can see how you'd call it average. Upshaw seems like a pretty solid replacement for Jarret Johnson, but he isn't an elite pass rusher, which you'd probably want out of your first pick. Osemele is a solid replacement for Grubbs. And Pierce steps in to fill a role that guys like McGahee and Ricky Williams moved on from. They saved a bunch of money without really losing a lot in terms of production with those three picks. Not sexy, but a pretty good outcome.

    If it means being able to spend money elsewhere to keep big hitters like Rice and Flacco and Ngata in the fold, that's not bad. As I said, budget management.

    In the 2012 draft I don't see even a Lardarius Webb or Paul Kruger or Torrey Smith type player in terms of adding a guy who can impact a game all on his own. So it's hard to call it a great draft from that perspective. In fact, Justin Tucker may be the biggest impact guy, and he wasn't even a draft pick.

    On the other hand, It's hard to find a draft that beats this one in terms of solid role players that they got out of their first three picks -- players who I suspect will all play for a number of years. 2009 also saw them pick up three players who filled roles in Oher, Kruger and Webb -- and two of those players are impact players, which makes 2009 better probably.

    2012 is probably like getting three Michael Ohers. Oher is a disappointment for those who think the first round pick should be a Ring of Honor type player. But if he was taken in the third round that would have been a damn good pick.

    Getting three Michael Oher-level players (or Ben Grubbs) from two seconds and a third isn't bad. Solid, not spectacular.
    Even a 3rd-rounder should be expected to, at least, slow down a defensive lineman.




  2. #26
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    Re: Average at best draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Yeah because all 3rd round picks are ''great moves''.

    Jah Reid is now a starter at LG and is holding out well, while Bernard Pierce had 13 carries for 124 yards on Sunday. What do people expect?
    Agreed. Ried has looked decent, avlot better than williams anyway. And i understand the critcism of the piece pick, but he is a guy that definately has "impact player" written all over him. God forbid Rice goes down, i dont think the offense would miss a beat a beat with pierce. Plus i think he is better short yardage/goaline back than rice. Nothing wrong with having two studs in the backfield.




  3. #27
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    Re: Average at best draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    Agreed. Ried has looked decent, avlot better than williams anyway. And i understand the critcism of the piece pick, but he is a guy that definately has "impact player" written all over him. God forbid Rice goes down, i dont think the offense would miss a beat a beat with pierce. Plus i think he is better short yardage/goaline back than rice. Nothing wrong with having two studs in the backfield.
    Yeah I agree.

    People are always harping on about ''BPA'', well Pierce was clearly the BPA here, and is an impact player. If you think he can be a pro bowl player, you draft him regardless of how stacked you are at one position. Who knows how the contract talks were developing with Rice at the time, plus we did need a back up RB, as Anthony Allen would have clearly been terrible.




  4. #28
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    Re: Average at best draft?

    I think that one of the problems that we've been having in the first round in the past few years has been the Patriots screwing us. We could have had Dez Bryant if they wouldn't have traded their pick to the Cowboys, Gronkowski was taken one selection before us, Hernandez was taken right before we picked, and they took Chander Jones and traded right in front of us to get Hightower in this draft. But without a rediculous number of picks next year, the Patrtiots draft day reign of terror might be over.




  5. #29
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    Re: Average at best draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coastergenius View Post
    I think that one of the problems that we've been having in the first round in the past few years has been the Patriots screwing us. We could have had Dez Bryant if they wouldn't have traded their pick to the Cowboys, Gronkowski was taken one selection before us, Hernandez was taken right before we picked, and they took Chander Jones and traded right in front of us to get Hightower in this draft. But without a rediculous number of picks next year, the Patrtiots draft day reign of terror might be over.
    The problem isn't the Patriots, it's Ozzie's unwillingness to trade up. They could have had Dez Bryant if Ozzie had been willing to part with a later pick in that draft to move up two or three spots. Same can be said for Gronkowski and this year they sat in their spot while guys like Hightower, Zeitler, Mercilus, and DeCastro all went in the five spots directly before their pick.

    Instead of Dez and Gronk they ended up with Kindle and Cody. Think about where the Ravens would be if they had both Bryant and Gronkowski right now - they were 1 pick away from having them.

    Also...can't judge this draft yet. They seem to have a few solid picks with their first three guys, not sure about the rest. If you include Tucker in the group then I think it's their best draft in several years at this point. Pierce selection was puzzling but it's also a guy they can look at as trade bait down the road, or eventual successor to Rice. Nothing wrong with having two strong RBs with different skill sets in today's NFL.




  6. #30

    Re: Average at best draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhcforlife View Post
    The problem isn't the Patriots, it's Ozzie's unwillingness to trade up. They could have had Dez Bryant if Ozzie had been willing to part with a later pick in that draft to move up two or three spots. Same can be said for Gronkowski and this year they sat in their spot while guys like Hightower, Zeitler, Mercilus, and DeCastro all went in the five spots directly before their pick.

    Instead of Dez and Gronk they ended up with Kindle and Cody. Think about where the Ravens would be if they had both Bryant and Gronkowski right now - they were 1 pick away from having them.

    Also...can't judge this draft yet. They seem to have a few solid picks with their first three guys, not sure about the rest. If you include Tucker in the group then I think it's their best draft in several years at this point. Pierce selection was puzzling but it's also a guy they can look at as trade bait down the road, or eventual successor to Rice. Nothing wrong with having two strong RBs with different skill sets in today's NFL.
    We got Oher instead of Dez, as well as Hakeem Nicks still ont he board and Veldheer for a couple more rounds...

    We got Kindle the Pick after Gronk, and then Cody with Geno Atkins on the board a few rounds, and DIckson instead of Jimmy Graham or Aaron Hernandezx who went right in front of Pitta....




  7. #31

    Re: Average at best draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by saintmatthew View Post
    Upshaw has kinda quietly come on as the season has progressed IMHO.
    He's definitely the kind of guy I would expect to make the jump to stardom in his 2nd season.




  8. #32
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    Re: Average at best draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    We got Oher instead of Dez, as well as Hakeem Nicks still ont he board and Veldheer for a couple more rounds...

    We got Kindle the Pick after Gronk, and then Cody with Geno Atkins on the board a few rounds, and DIckson instead of Jimmy Graham or Aaron Hernandezx who went right in front of Pitta....
    Dez was in 2010, Oher was 2009 but that is a good point about Oher instead of Nicks who many people wanted. They have had some pretty big misses recently...




  9. #33

    Re: Average at best draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coastergenius View Post
    I think that one of the problems that we've been having in the first round in the past few years has been the Patriots screwing us. We could have had Dez Bryant if they wouldn't have traded their pick to the Cowboys, Gronkowski was taken one selection before us, Hernandez was taken right before we picked, and they took Chander Jones and traded right in front of us to get Hightower in this draft. But without a rediculous number of picks next year, the Patrtiots draft day reign of terror might be over.
    Gronkowski wouldn't have fit in with Cam Cameron's offense. He makes catches in the middle of the field, which was foreign to Cameron.




  10. #34

    Re: Average at best draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Gronkowski wouldn't have fit in with Cam Cameron's offense. He makes catches in the middle of the field, which was foreign to Cameron.
    he also is the best blocking receiving TE in football. Cam obviously values blocking very little as they drafted Dickson and Pitta inthe same draft and neither can block their way out of a wet paper bag.




  11. #35
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    Re: Average at best draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by mfdoom42 View Post
    He's definitely the kind of guy I would expect to make the jump to stardom in his 2nd season.
    After some of the plays I've seen him make in the last few weeks, he could damn well make his jump to stardom in the post-season.




  12. #36

    Re: Average at best draft?

    Shas, i always thought you espoused the "A draft can't be properly graded until 3 years have passed" philosophy.

    Based on Upshaw's, Ossemele's, and especially Pierce's contributions as Rookies, i would agree with your "B rather than C" assessment. Still, we won't know for sure for at least another season and a half. I'm thinking the writer probably would have been more accurate to say "Average at the least" rather than "at best"
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