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Thread: Ogden called it

  1. #25

    Re: Ogden called it



    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    You can substitute the name "Gaither" for "McKinnie" and watch the patterns repeat.
    May very well be true




  2. #26
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    So, what happens if ... and he plays well.
    And what if the Ravens fire Cam Cameron, let Jim Caldwell take over the offense, and it explodes for 40 points against the Broncos?

    Oh, wait....

    Seriously. I would say that the offense struggling with Caldwell as OC in his first game was to be expected. Just as I would not expect a quick fix of playing McKinnie, moving Oher to RG and Osemele to LG would be a positive after one game. I would expect the offense to probably play worse after totally rearranging the line with two games left.

    The problem is long term. McKinnie is not a long term solution. Oher may or may not be. Right now it appears he's not. But fans are looking for a quick fix. Even if McKinnie played well individually for one game, I still wouldn't say that it proves he should have been playing all along. We don't know how he would have performed compared to Oher over an entire season. Just because Oher looks bad doesn't prove McKinnie is better.




  3. #27

    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    I don't agree with that comparison at all. Gaither was a bum who missed huge amounts of time with questionable "injuries." McKinnie has played over 10 years in the NFL, has been selected to multiple Pro Bowls, and has only missed one game in his career due to injury. I agree that Harbaugh probably likes Oher's overall work ethic and attitude better than McKinnie's, but I doubt that Bisciotti is willing to sacrifice performance on Game Day for it. I do agree though that McKinnie may have checked out mentally after the Ravens cut his pay right before the season started, which is why he may not be busting his butt in practice.
    Don't know his injury history, but he was a purple mess often in Minn. Conditioning issues, character issues (partying & finances), acting out at one of the aforementioned Pro Bowls, etc. It was not just one weigh-in that caused the Vikings to cut him.




  4. #28
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Well, then we all may as well just accept that this season is lost for the Ravens, because I really don't see the OL play improving dramatically with the same players out there. I can't remember the last time I have enjoyed a Ravens season as little as I have enjoyed this one.




  5. #29
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    I don't agree with that comparison at all. Gaither was a bum who missed huge amounts of time with questionable "injuries." McKinnie has played over 10 years in the NFL, has been selected to multiple Pro Bowls, and has only missed one game in his career due to injury. I agree that Harbaugh probably likes Oher's overall work ethic and attitude better than McKinnie's, but I doubt that Bisciotti is willing to sacrifice performance on Game Day for it. I do agree though that McKinnie may have checked out mentally after the Ravens cut his pay right before the season started, which is why he may not be busting his butt in practice.
    McKinnie was also dumped by his team, had numerous off field distractions, and had his attitude and work ethic questioned as it relates to his ability to contribute versus distract. I think there is SOME comparison. Gaither also looked like an all pro, at times, which is why many pined for him to work out.




  6. #30
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    Don't know his injury history, but he was a purple mess often in Minn. Conditioning issues, character issues (partying & finances). It was not just one weigh-in that caused the Vikings to cut him.
    Why are you looking back at his time with the Vikings. McKinnie started every game last season for the Ravens at LT, and played much better then Oher has played this season. There is no way that he is in worse shape this year then he was last year. What exactly do the Ravens have to lose by playing him now? Oher is stinking up the joint.




  7. #31
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    McKinnie was also dumped by his team, had numerous off field distractions, and had his attitude and work ethic questioned as it relates to his ability to contribute versus distract. I think there is SOME comparison. Gaither also looked like an all pro, at times, which is why many pined for him to work out.
    McKinnie also started EVERY game last season for the Ravens at LT, and played better then Oher has played LT this season. The Ravens were one dropped pass from the SB with McKinnie playing LT for them last season. I don't care if McKinnie is the long-term solution at LT or not. The NFL is a year to year proposition. Harbaugh's ONLY concern should be fielding the best team to win THIS season.
    Last edited by Dirt1; 12-21-2012 at 01:48 PM.




  8. #32
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    McKinnie also started EVERY game last season for the Ravens at LT, and played better then Oher has played LT this season.
    I'd say McKinnie was a better pass blocker, but a lackluster, worse run blocker than Oher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    The Ravens were one dropped pass from the SB with McKinnie playing LT for them last season.
    But, like Flacco, they didn't necessarily get that far BECAUSE of McKinnie (or because of Ray Lewis or Ed Reed).

    I don't have a problem with team deciding in training camp need to go with a younger guy in Oher who has played well enough to think he can be a long term solution.

    It's like a Paul Kruger situation. He was slammed as a bust by many, but the Ravens made a commitment to him (partly because a guy like Kindle flamed out and a guy like JJ got older and more expensive) -- and it worked out.

    I don't blame them for committing to Oher this year to see if he too could turn the corner. I also don't blame them for thinking that McKinnie isn't the answer based on what they saw in camp, and in practices since.

    If the coaches want to try McKinnie right now because Oher has fallen off as far as he has, okay, I trust that decision, but I also think there is just as much risk that it sends backwards making big changes this late (Just like the Cam decision).




  9. #33
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Shas- I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this. Thanks, I enjoyed the discussion.




  10. #34
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Thanks, no problem. I guess, for me, it comes down to the fact that I don't see that big a difference between the players. They both seem pretty flawed to me, and I can't really bitch about the decision to start one over the other, and I can understand the decision to see what they have for the future in Oher, given that their talent was close enough.

    Same story for Jah Reid and Bobby Williams. I understand going with the younger guy over the talented veteran who may be too banged up or slowed to be what he once was. The fact that Jah hasn't knocked it out of the park doesn't make the decision to start him over Williams wrong...it just makes the talent they have on the O line disappointing. It's frustrating not to think they have a solution in the wings when they are on the brink of being pretty darn good, but I don't think they have a solution in the wings when it comes to improving the offensive line play.




  11. #35
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    Re: Ogden called it

    at the rate Oher is giving up sacks its a matter of time one of those sacks result in flacco getting hurt, although injuries can come at any time keeping Oher in there gives that probablity of flacco getting hurt a much higher rate, you think we look bad with flacco now, let tyrod taylor play behind center. This offense is not working, one of those problems are gone the next 2 is 1. the system and 2. Oline...some guys just don't have it and Oher just doesn't have it playing LT. Filmstudy who we all know and respect on this board have said it many times Oher is not a quality tackle in this league but this FO and coaching staff is gonna die by opposite.




  12. #36
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    I'd say McKinnie was a better pass blocker, but a lackluster, worse run blocker than Oher.



    But, like Flacco, they didn't necessarily get that far BECAUSE of McKinnie (or because of Ray Lewis or Ed Reed).

    I don't have a problem with team deciding in training camp need to go with a younger guy in Oher who has played well enough to think he can be a long term solution.

    It's like a Paul Kruger situation. He was slammed as a bust by many, but the Ravens made a commitment to him (partly because a guy like Kindle flamed out and a guy like JJ got older and more expensive) -- and it worked out.

    I don't blame them for committing to Oher this year to see if he too could turn the corner. I also don't blame them for thinking that McKinnie isn't the answer based on what they saw in camp, and in practices since.

    If the coaches want to try McKinnie right now because Oher has fallen off as far as he has, okay, I trust that decision, but I also think there is just as much risk that it sends backwards making big changes this late (Just like the Cam decision).
    I wouldn't say that worked out the FO got stuck, Kruger is not bust but he is not a full time starter.




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