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Thread: Ogden called it

  1. #16
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    Re: Ogden called it



    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    the doghouse is very real, damn near every blogger on this website have written about it at one point.
    True, but half the readers don't understand what it refers to.




  2. #17
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    I would say that Oher is more of a natural left tackle than right tackle -- Osemele is more of the brutish kind of run blocker you typically see on the right. Oher is not. It's just that Oher is playing his natural position in a pretty average way right now.

    My read on the JO quote supports this entirely. His "doghouse" comments don't relate to Oher, except to say that a multiple Pro Bowl LT in McKinnie can't beat out a guy who is not excelling ahead of him. We all know McKinnie has the ability to beat out Oher, but the suggestion made by J.O. is one hopefully we all agree with: McKinnie can't get on the field --- he is in the dog house -- because he hasn't put in enough effort to coaches to show he can execute on the field.

    There is no dog house for players who have personalities that the coaches don't like. There are dog houses for players who aren't performing, even if they've performed in past years.
    So, what happens if the Ravens lose this week, and Oher gives up a couple of sacks and looks bad in the process. Say the FO then tells Harbaugh to play McKinnie next week against Cincy, and he plays well. Does the narrative that you stated above still hold, or was all of that just more coach speak from Harbaugh?




  3. #18

    Re: Ogden called it

    I'd also like to say that if Oher's arms were longer i think he'd be fine on the left side. Alot of guys are able to use that to negate other shortcomings and do a solid job in pass pro but Oher doesnt have that advantage.




  4. #19

    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Carey View Post
    Here's my take on it...Harbs wants gym rats out there, guys that come early, stay late, etc. Mckinnie's rep has always been the opposite. ... If he's still out of shape then you dont bother but if he is in shape and does his job from a preparation standpoint you play him because he's a better LT then Oher. Sure you want 53 choir boys that work extremely hard but that never happens, you have to put the best guys on the field ... This is all provided he's practicing like a starting NFL lineman,
    You can substitute the name "Gaither" for "McKinnie" and watch the patterns repeat.




  5. #20
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    So, what happens if the Ravens lose this week, and Oher gives up a couple of sacks and looks bad in the process. Say the FO then tells Harbaugh to play McKinnie next week against Cincy, and he plays well. Does the narrative that you stated above still hold, or was all of that just more coach speak from Harbaugh?
    Absolutely, it holds.

    First of all, the FO is not going to tell Harbaugh who to play.

    But if Harbaugh sits Oher it will be because Oher's falling star intersected with McKinnie's reduced capacity to be a solid contributor.

    The way I see it is that McKinnie's desire/effort, and therefore production, declined a long time ago, back when the Vikings jettisoned him. The Ravens picked him up when they were somewhat desperate to fill a need that the entire Gaither situation created. Once he got here, he proved to be a greatly reduced talent who could work as a stop gap, but not much more.

    Oher, on the other hand, was drafted as a long term solution -- they would like him to work out at LT and sign him long term, and let the McKinnie insurance policy expire. But Mike has played pretty mediocre football, albeit with enough effort and natural size and ability for the staff to think he could improve.

    If he continues to falter, and they end up deciding he's not getting the job done, or can't get the job done, then it most certainly doesn't prove they were wrong about McKinnie. It proves they have two crappy left tackles and are back to square one.




  6. #21
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    Re: Ogden called it

    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  7. #22
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    You can substitute the name "Gaither" for "McKinnie" and watch the patterns repeat.
    Exactly. People see the talent, and don't understand why the player isn't starting over an average player, and assume there is some coaching conspiracy. There are still people who think Gaither moved on to prove them right when they saw spurts of effectiveness in KC and San Diego. I have a different definition of effectiveness.




  8. #23
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    You can substitute the name "Gaither" for "McKinnie" and watch the patterns repeat.
    I don't agree with that comparison at all. Gaither was a bum who missed huge amounts of time with questionable "injuries." McKinnie has played over 10 years in the NFL, has been selected to multiple Pro Bowls, and has only missed one game in his career due to injury. I agree that Harbaugh probably likes Oher's overall work ethic and attitude better than McKinnie's, but I doubt that Bisciotti is willing to sacrifice performance on Game Day for it. I do agree though that McKinnie may have checked out mentally after the Ravens cut his pay right before the season started, which is why he may not be busting his butt in practice.




  9. #24

    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    Genius, RWT! Sheer genius!




  10. #25

    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    You can substitute the name "Gaither" for "McKinnie" and watch the patterns repeat.
    May very well be true




  11. #26
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    So, what happens if ... and he plays well.
    And what if the Ravens fire Cam Cameron, let Jim Caldwell take over the offense, and it explodes for 40 points against the Broncos?

    Oh, wait....

    Seriously. I would say that the offense struggling with Caldwell as OC in his first game was to be expected. Just as I would not expect a quick fix of playing McKinnie, moving Oher to RG and Osemele to LG would be a positive after one game. I would expect the offense to probably play worse after totally rearranging the line with two games left.

    The problem is long term. McKinnie is not a long term solution. Oher may or may not be. Right now it appears he's not. But fans are looking for a quick fix. Even if McKinnie played well individually for one game, I still wouldn't say that it proves he should have been playing all along. We don't know how he would have performed compared to Oher over an entire season. Just because Oher looks bad doesn't prove McKinnie is better.




  12. #27

    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    I don't agree with that comparison at all. Gaither was a bum who missed huge amounts of time with questionable "injuries." McKinnie has played over 10 years in the NFL, has been selected to multiple Pro Bowls, and has only missed one game in his career due to injury. I agree that Harbaugh probably likes Oher's overall work ethic and attitude better than McKinnie's, but I doubt that Bisciotti is willing to sacrifice performance on Game Day for it. I do agree though that McKinnie may have checked out mentally after the Ravens cut his pay right before the season started, which is why he may not be busting his butt in practice.
    Don't know his injury history, but he was a purple mess often in Minn. Conditioning issues, character issues (partying & finances), acting out at one of the aforementioned Pro Bowls, etc. It was not just one weigh-in that caused the Vikings to cut him.




  13. #28
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Well, then we all may as well just accept that this season is lost for the Ravens, because I really don't see the OL play improving dramatically with the same players out there. I can't remember the last time I have enjoyed a Ravens season as little as I have enjoyed this one.




  14. #29
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    I don't agree with that comparison at all. Gaither was a bum who missed huge amounts of time with questionable "injuries." McKinnie has played over 10 years in the NFL, has been selected to multiple Pro Bowls, and has only missed one game in his career due to injury. I agree that Harbaugh probably likes Oher's overall work ethic and attitude better than McKinnie's, but I doubt that Bisciotti is willing to sacrifice performance on Game Day for it. I do agree though that McKinnie may have checked out mentally after the Ravens cut his pay right before the season started, which is why he may not be busting his butt in practice.
    McKinnie was also dumped by his team, had numerous off field distractions, and had his attitude and work ethic questioned as it relates to his ability to contribute versus distract. I think there is SOME comparison. Gaither also looked like an all pro, at times, which is why many pined for him to work out.




  15. #30
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    Re: Ogden called it

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    Don't know his injury history, but he was a purple mess often in Minn. Conditioning issues, character issues (partying & finances). It was not just one weigh-in that caused the Vikings to cut him.
    Why are you looking back at his time with the Vikings. McKinnie started every game last season for the Ravens at LT, and played much better then Oher has played this season. There is no way that he is in worse shape this year then he was last year. What exactly do the Ravens have to lose by playing him now? Oher is stinking up the joint.




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