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  1. #16
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    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed



    Quote Originally Posted by PGCountyRaven85 View Post
    I dunno about trading Ngata...he's probably why this run defense is 28 (or has it dipped even lower?) instead of 31/32nd. We'd have to legitimate DLine men.
    Yea, but realistically, is there THAT much of a difference between 28 and 32? Not really.
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  2. #17
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    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenalytics View Post
    A couple of years ago, if you'd said that about Mario Williams and Houston, people would have called you crazy.

    I'd hate to see Ngata leave though. I just really feel the line would fall to pieces without him. I really think the attention he commands is what allows guys like McPhee, Jones, and Tyson to look as good as they do.
    I would hate to see the guy go too, but the reality is that the Ravens are going to be tight against the cap and need a lot...maybe more than what the draft can give and with the way that they have been drafting lately, I don't have much confidence that they'll be able to find quality players to fill out the roster.
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  3. #18
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    I wouldn't be bothered if Ngata went elsewhere. I'd rather have a better oline.


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  4. #19
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    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    Agreed; some of these guys with huge contracts are going to be scrutinized. If a team is willing to over pay for them, then it has to be something the team considers
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  5. #20

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    Ngata is not the same player he was 3 years ago. He is beyond his prime, b/c injuries have caught up to him. And he really has never developed into a passrushing Sam Adams type DT. I'm all for shipping him off in a Richard Seymour type deal. Dont think we'd get too much for him... maybe a 2nd round. At least we'd obtain a lot of cap space for OL help, #1 WR.




  6. #21

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    I've thought that about Ndata also. He's a big man with leg injuries and I think his best days are behind him. Ray and Ed need to move on as great as they were. Joes a tough call, not worth what he wants and i think we may have made a mistake with Rice. Yes he is very good and would be better with an Oline and an offense that was designed to run block. This team has been put together the past few years for Joe to throw the ball. Its almost like we still don't know what we want to be. RR got big money for a running back going into his 5th year. Now you have a high paid running back that can't run because of a bad Oline and a QB who wants big money and can't do what the big money QB's do. You already have RR, put Joes money into the Oline and some Defense while taking the money you save from Ray,Ed, etc. Find a good game manager for QB rebuild the oline and defense with the money saved and go back to smash mouth on both sides of the ball. Between Joe, Ray ,Ed, Boldin, Birk and a few others we can rebuild and getback to what made the Raven who they were.




  7. #22

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by PGCountyRaven85 View Post
    I think it's obvious at this point that this overly cautious front office strategy must be shelved over the next couple years so this team is able to compete long-term. This is stuff like trading down into the second round for quantity over quality, overpaying old guys with bloating contracts to the point that we can never make any aggressive moves in free agency. I'm not saying we need to become Daniel Snyder or Jerry Jones, but Ozzie/DeCosta or whoever need to stop tip-toeing through the off season instead of watching the Denvers, the New England's, the Houston's etc. get younger, faster, and better while we're anchored to bloated contracts for guys who are no longer producing. So what does this all mean? It means we need to make moves like...

    Release Ray Lewis-He's been great, the best of all time at his position, but it's time to move on. He's 37 and making like 4 million next year. We could use that dough elsewhere.
    Let Ed Reed test free agency/retire.-He's been great over the years, but this years, his game has come apart. He's constantly out of position on those big plays in the seams. His gambling is nothing, he's been doing this for years, but now he's slower and can't recover. He's also done a lot of bad guessing that's cost this team big. Don't even get me started on his tackling, it's been bad for at least 3 years, this year it's been taken to new levels of shittiness. Getting hurdled over twice this year? By Brent Celek and Knowshawn Moreno? C'mon!
    Matt Birk-This guy is "smart" and all, but he gets destroyed by Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton and other dominant tackles and his advantage in technique can no longer cover up his physical limitations. The quarterback can't move up into the pocket when the center is on his ass every play.
    Boldin-I loved the move when they made it, but he's no worth the five or so million they're scheduled to pay him next year. We need to use that money to go after a true number 1 receiver like Dwayne Bowe, Greg Jennings, Danny Amendola or see what Doss can do in an expanded role.
    Bobbie Williams-This guy is old and just doesn't have it anymore. 'Nuff said.
    Oher-move this guy to guard, so he doesn't have to deal with speed rushers at all. He's a dominant run blocker but as we all can see, he's very mediocre in pass pro.
    With the savings from these moves, we can go get that left tackle from Kansas City or maybe Jake Long. Then we can go 100% defense and OL depth in this draft because the bottom line is this team is getting destroyed in the trenches to an extent that I've not seen in years.
    You need to define what "overly cautious" is but whatever strategy we decide the Ravens have been using for the last 5 years is the same strategy that has allowed us to compete for the last 5 years. As for aggressive moves in free agency, very few teams do it and there's a reason for it. You've got to build through the draft and that's where the problem lies. We've come up with a few misses lately although it's probably to premature to rate any draft class until 3 years out.
    The cap also impacts off season strategy. Part of the reason why the ravens have put a winning product on the field is because they've been able to retain alot of their players with market value contracts. In others words they've been able to spent up to the cap. Now they are forecasting 2013 cap to come in flat and all indications are is that 2014 could be the same. Many people didn't expect the cap especially in 2013 to come in flat compared to 2012 so this hinders the ravens a little as well.

    And by the way there's no cap savings if Ed Reed were to go elsewhere. I believe the same is true for Bobbie Williams. He was on a 1 year deal if memory serves me correctly.




  8. #23

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    [QUOTE=PGCountyRaven85;539924]I dunno about trading Ngata...he's probably why this run defense is 28 (or has it dipped even lower?) instead of 31/32nd. We'd have to legitimate DLine men.[/QUOTE

    Ngata is playing out of position (DE in Pees' schemes). He should be the NT but nevertheless don't forget about Cody and Maake getting blown off the ball too. Their issues are technique but I beleive Ngata is more injury related.




  9. #24

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    Ngata is not being traded so get that idea aside, Flacco would be tagged and traded before Ngata is.

    Lewis will have to take a pay cut or be cut and re signed, Boldin is in the same boat.

    Birk will be cut or retire. I would still sign flacco to the deal we were offering him. If we tagged him we would take a 14M hit and what happens if we dont sign him in the off season and he plays under the tag? do you tag him again for 17-20M, do you just give him what he wants. The team cant afford big cap hits but on the other hand they dont want to overpay a player. But when it comes to Flacco a Franchise QB, they are all really overpaid when they re sign. The should sign him not tag him for cap reasons, its the best move going forward

    I remember reading that the cap will go up big in 2014 when the new TV deal hits. so not is the time to sign Flacco. We have needs in the off season but not as many as most people think. We are good at WR/RB/TE/OLB/CB/RG/RT/LG (if they move KO). Those holes can be found in the draft FA. Remember we will be getting quite a few comp picks this year prob a 3rd and 4th and a 5th or 2 6ths. with those type extra picks i can see this being the year we trade up vs down.

    Lets say our pick is 25 it wont cost too much to move up to around 17-18. same in the 2nd round if we wanted to move up. we have the ammo to do so. Last year we got the guy we wanted in the 2nd round and he was the top guy on our board when we made the trade. so that worked out.




  10. #25

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    i can also see money saved by not tendering all our RFAs or giving some lower than normal tenders (Dickson) is a prime exapmle for a low tender if someone bites we get a 3rd. and save a ton on the cap.




  11. #26
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    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    And by the way there's no cap savings if Ed Reed were to go elsewhere. I believe the same is true for Bobbie Williams. He was on a 1 year deal if memory serves me correctly.
    That's not necessarily true in practical terms. Ed isn't presently being counted against next year's cap because his contract is about to expire. But re-signing him, even at a reduced rate, will likely be more expensive than bringing in another FS. New England or someone else will offer him more than the Ravens.

    And Bobbie Williams does have another year on his contract (it was a 2-year deal). Fortunately his dead money amount is pretty low if he's cut.




  12. #27

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenalytics View Post
    I don't think anyone on defense needs to go. Look at the starters who are playing hurt, or have missed time:

    Lewis (HoF), Reed (HoF), Webb (Elite corner), Ngata (All-Pro), Suggs (All-Pro) Pollard, McPhee, Ellerbe, Jimmy Smith.

    That's 9 people! Reed looked fine when Webb was still healthy. Going into last week, we had the number one red zone defense. I think it's pretty admirable in light of the circumstance.

    I just read PFF today, and encouraging news is that Upshaw is turning into a monster run stopper, and Corey Graham is doing a very admirable job at corner. Going into next season with that line up healthy, I think we look good.

    I think the part of the defense that needs the most work is the line. Ngata just has almost no help.

    The offense should get back to being a power football team. I don't think they'll find a QB better than Flacco anytime soon, but Flacco just can't carry a team on his shoulders. I think the best thing is to emulate San Francisco with Alex Smith.

    Invest in a powerful interior line so you can run a zone blocking scheme. If you get a guy like Barrett Jones in the draft, get Yanda back healthy, and then acquire a capable G/C in FA, suddenly Oher and Osemele don't look so bad on the outside. Combine that with Leach in the backfield more frequently, not only do you have better protection for Joe, but you suddenly have many more options in the run game.

    We have great talent in the running back team. We should capitalize on it.

    I'm in favor of Boldin staying only because he's so great at blocking down field. We don't have a tight end who can do that yet.
    Some guys are going to have to go...if because of nothing else but the cap.

    Ray Lewis is in no way a guy should have a $6+ million cap hit. Reed either.

    Boldin is overpaid. Leach IMHO is a nice luxury that the team will have to ask itself does it really need.

    There are going to be some tough decisions and choices made and some of those guys I just mentioned are not going to be here anymore. They are all over 30 and with the exception of Leach, their play is heading down a steep decline. This team has a SERIOUS speed problem on defense and a serious problem getting guys open on offense.

    You aren't addressing needs by keeping over the hill players IMHO. The wise saying is that it's better to let guys leave a year early than a year late.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  13. #28

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    want to mention cap issues. The Steelers are fucked. 26 of their players for next year = 126M of cap space. They will be making a lot of cuts.




  14. #29

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by trailhiker85 View Post
    That's not necessarily true. Ed isn't presently being counted against next year's cap because his contract is about to expire. But re-signing him, even at a reduced rate, will likely be more expensive than bringing in another FS. New England or someone else will offer him more than the Ravens.

    And Bobbie Williams does have another year on his contract (it was a 2-year deal). Fortunately his dead money amount is pretty low if he's cut.
    My post made no mention of Ed Reed being retained. I simply stated the fact that if Ed Reed were to sign elsewhere there's no cap savings. Ed will be a UFA next year so of course he's not going to count against the cap. As for Bobbie Williams I stand corrected.




  15. #30

    Re: Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny8444 View Post
    want to mention cap issues. The Steelers are fucked. 26 of their players for next year = 126M of cap space. They will be making a lot of cuts.
    Holy crap!! You sure that number is accurate?? That's unbelievable. I knew they were doing a lot of restructuring but damn




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