This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

**wickedsolo** · 12-19-2012, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

I don't see too many quality organizations looking to spend the huge money that Flacco wants to get him. The Eagles are probably the best of the group and their o-line is much worse than ours. The others would be the Raiders, Cardinals, Bills...Those teams all have some serious issues and not much history of fixing them. If Joe does leave I think it could be a while before he is able to do as well as he has here.

Which you have to think is a big factor in all of this.

As I said before, I would really like to think that Joe would rather be handsomely paid and play for a team that is dedicated to surrounding him with better players than getting paid an absurd contract and playing for a perennial loser.

**PerpetuallyBored74** · 12-19-2012, 10:57 AM

Dammit Joe, we could have avoided all this drama if only you'd held onto the ball on that QB sneak and not thrown such a horrible pass at the goal line for that pick six which just killed the team's morale.

Just sign for what you've earned so far, not what you think you may be worth someday should the planets happen to align themselves in the proper retrograde or whatever.

I am so annoyed with you right now Joe.

**GOTA** · 12-19-2012, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

lol, I didn't once blame Flacco for that. My argument is that this is clearly not one of the worse offensive units (talent wise) in the league.

Although, I think Kurt Warner was a better QB than Flacco will ever be.

Warner is a better QB than most who played the position will ever be.

**RavensRule21215** · 12-19-2012, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

I don't see too many quality organizations looking to spend the huge money that Flacco wants to get him. The Eagles are probably the best of the group and their o-line is much worse than ours. The others would be the Raiders, Cardinals, Bills...Those teams all have some serious issues and not much history of fixing them. If Joe does leave I think it could be a while before he is able to do as well as he has here.

That's entirely possible. By the same token, projecting ahead for what's going to be happening here with the Ravens, there are a lot of holes and I don't know if things here over the next few years are going to be as good as they've been the past few years -- on offense and defense. So it's a crap shoot, to be sure. And my feeling is that IF the Ravens had even done some of the non-monetary things, like NOT re-signing Cameron, to show Joe that he's their guy, things might be different. But they basically stuck it to him, and now to expect him to forgive and forget is just a bit much, IMO.

**GOTA** · 12-19-2012, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Which you have to think is a big factor in all of this.

As I said before, I would really like to think that Joe would rather be handsomely paid and play for a team that is dedicated to surrounding him with better players than getting paid an absurd contract and playing for a perennial loser.

You would think so but you can never tell with players. Look at what Mario Williams missed out on. He leaves a team that is clearly on the rise and takes the money from a team that hasn't been in the playoffs in 13 years. There is a good chance that Mario will never play in the postseason for his entire career. But, he did every dollar he could.

**RavensRule21215** · 12-19-2012, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Which you have to think is a big factor in all of this.

As I said before, I would really like to think that Joe would rather be handsomely paid and play for a team that is dedicated to surrounding him with better players than getting paid an absurd contract and playing for a perennial loser.

PLEASE show me where the Ravens have shown their dedication to surrounding Joe with better players.

**RavensRule21215** · 12-19-2012, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

And, to me, this is a BIG deal.

It isn't like every pass that gets thrown his way is contested. He has dropped a fair amount of passes that hit him square in the hands...including a go-ahead TD against the Steelers in the playoffs that could have won the game for Baltimore.

Boldin hasn't been used right at all in Baltimore's offense, but he also hasn't done a whole lot for himself either with the dropped passes, penalties, and inability to get open consistently.

Total agreement here. But then how can you say the Ravens have shown a dedication to surround Joe with a great supporting cast? They certainly haven't done it with the O-line. Or the WRs. So please...give me somethin, man.

;)

**HoustonRaven** · 12-19-2012, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

PLEASE show me where the Ravens have shown their dedication to surrounding Joe with better players.

Added Leach, extended Rice, drafted Torrey, acquired FA's Jacoby Jones and Boldin ....

That's just off the top of my head ....

**RavensRule21215** · 12-19-2012, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Added Leach, extended Rice, drafted Torrey, acquired FA's Jacoby Jones and Boldin ....

That's just off the top of my head ....

And you think that compares to the Falcons bringing in a guy like Jones, when they already had White, Turner, and Gonzalez? And the Ravens, despite their promise to improve the O-line, couldn't even re-sign Grubbs, and the O-line is worse this year than last year. Sorry. It all pales by comparison, IMO. And honestly, if that's the best they can do, I think Joe can find a better situation elsewhere.

**bmorecareful** · 12-19-2012, 11:10 AM

There is definitely something to the "supporting cast" argument, but I don't think any of our offensive units are among the worst in the league. I'd say they're strictly average, for the most part. The WR group looked like one of the best in the league earlier in the season when Flacco was playing better. They have a very solid pass-catching TE, and their RBs are among the very best in the league.

The OL is average overall WITH Yanda, chiefly because they run block pretty well, without Yanda it's certainly below average but it's still not one of the worst units in the league. And again, when Flacco has played well, it's made the OL look better. I don't believe he was sacked at all vs. Cincinnati in game one despite facing some pressure and that's because he got the ball out more quickly.

The bottom line is that even if there's something to the "supporting cast" argument, I don't think you can forget that it goes both ways. Flacco could help his WRs look better by throwing more catchable balls and getting the ball out in better rhythm. He could help his OL by not holding the ball so long or by moving around the pocket to buy time. It's a symbiotic relationship where even ONE elite or very good unit can make all the other units look better. We don't have a single elite or very good unit and that includes Flacco.

It's kind of interesting because the more I look back on it I actually think Flacco was a totally different player in 2009 and 2010, especially in 2009. I think 2009 would have been the best year of his career if he didn't get hurt vs. Minnesota. I want to go back and re-watch games from 09 very closely to figure out what was going on then. Obviously we had an elite OL and the run game was excellent that year, but our pass-catching group wasn't as good as this year IMO and I also recall Flacco just plain playing better independent of other factors and particularly better under pressure that year. What changed?

**Justlovemybirds** · 12-19-2012, 11:11 AM

They did at least recognize the potential hole at LG and worked hard to get Evan Mathis, spent an early pick on a lineman (KO), went out and got McKinnie which worked for a hot minute.

The FO has no doubt made an effort to give Joe what he needs, its just that not every move has panned out.

**RavensRule21215** · 12-19-2012, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

They did at least recognize the potential hole at LG and worked hard to get Evan Mathis, spent an early pick on a lineman (KO), Went out and got McKinnie which worked for a hot minute.

The FO has no doubt made an effort to give Joe what he needs, its just that not every move has panned out.

I'd say that's a bit of an understatement.

;)

Look...Grubbs himself was quoted as having said he didn't re-sign because the Ravens were all about the defense. And looking at the cap situation, that's not just talk. So you can't have it both ways. You can't be all about the defense then try to say a franchise QB who doesn't want to sign is being selfish and all about the money. The Ravens should NEVER have re-signed Cameron, and that's a big part of where this mess all began. And even there, it's got nothing to do with money; just a stupid move by the organization.