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  1. #85
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go



    The arguments about how Bilicheck didn't become a SB winning coach over night and is an example of how JH can become great after more time are the same arguments as to how Flacco can become great with more time because Brady didn't become a great statistical QB until his fifth year in the league.




  2. #86
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    No one is trying to say Harbaugh is or will be better than Belichick. The point is everyone starts somewhere. Belichick didn't walk into the league and become a Superbowl winning coach right away. He took his lumps first, a lot of them. Just like Harbaugh is doing now. If you would have told people that Belichick would end up being one of the best coaches in the NFL nearly 20 years later, Cleveland fans would have laughed you out of the fucking stadium. We don't know where Harbaugh's career is going. To pretend to know is simply silly.
    Agreed, we don't know how Harbaugh's career is going to turn out, but Belichick was a very good defensive coordinator prior to becoming a HC. I just think that he was more qualified earlier in his career than Harbaugh. Belichick's defensive game plan from the New York Giants' 20–19 upset of the Buffalo Bills in Super Bowl XXV is now in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. So, if Belichick questions one of his coordinators, he does so from a position of far more credibility than Harbaugh does. I just don't see any strong OC or DC thinking that Harbaugh can teach them much of anything about how to do their job better. Harbaugh would have to be able to make up for his Xs and Os shortcomings by being an outstanding leader. I just don't think that he is a great leader.




  3. #87

    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    The arguments about how Bilicheck didn't become a SB winning coach over night and is an example of how JH can become great after more time are the same arguments as to how Flacco can become great with more time because Brady didn't become a great statistical QB until his fifth year in the league.
    Agreed. Stop looking at guys and saying "oh, well maybe he could be like this" without any actual proof. Maybe Joe Flacco and Tom Brady have similar numbers in their first 5 years (which is kind of BS anyway because the league is so different now) but did Joe Flacco show the kind of consistent clutch ability and high level of mental acuity that Brady did in his first 5 years? You can't judge what a player might be able to do by what you "feel" like he might be able to do or what other players have done, you've got to go by what the player has actually shown on the field.

    Regarding the coaches, Belichick was showing that he had a unique coaching mind light years ahead of the competition as early as his days with the Giants when he was like 30 years old. He put together the game plan that completely shut down Jim Kelly's K-Gun offense in the 1990 Super Bowl, an offense that nobody else in the league could stop. He coordinated some of the best defenses in the NFL, and Lawrence Taylor said he would have been nobody if not for Bill Belichick.

    Harbaugh has shown... NOTHING!!! to suggest he is a great football mind. He doesn't assemble game plans or call any plays. He doesn't run drafts or have the final call on personnel moves. He's never out-coached, out-adjusted, or out-game planned anybody in this league, and Belichick has his entire career. Harbaugh's job is to motivate his guys (which he's failed to do this year) and manage the game on Sundays (which he's also failed to do this year and his entire tenure here). So... bottom line, no similarities there.




  4. #88
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Agreed. Stop looking at guys and saying "oh, well maybe he could be like this" without any actual proof. Maybe Joe Flacco and Tom Brady have similar numbers in their first 5 years (which is kind of BS anyway because the league is so different now) but did Joe Flacco show the kind of consistent clutch ability and high level of mental acuity that Brady did in his first 5 years? You can't judge what a player might be able to do by what you "feel" like he might be able to do or what other players have done, you've got to go by what the player has actually shown on the field.

    Regarding the coaches, Belichick was showing that he had a unique coaching mind light years ahead of the competition as early as his days with the Giants when he was like 30 years old. He put together the game plan that completely shut down Jim Kelly's K-Gun offense in the 1990 Super Bowl, an offense that nobody else in the league could stop. He coordinated some of the best defenses in the NFL, and Lawrence Taylor said he would have been nobody if not for Bill Belichick.

    Harbaugh has shown... NOTHING!!! to suggest he is a great football mind. He doesn't assemble game plans or call any plays. He doesn't run drafts or have the final call on personnel moves. He's never out-coached, out-adjusted, or out-game planned anybody in this league, and Belichick has his entire career. Harbaugh's job is to motivate his guys (which he's failed to do this year) and manage the game on Sundays (which he's also failed to do this year and his entire tenure here). So... bottom line, no similarities there.


    And I used to be a HUGE JH fan, and once though Flacco could have been one of the greats. Both are good at what they do, but championship calibre? Without a talented squad, I don't think so.




  5. #89
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Agreed, we don't know how Harbaugh's career is going to turn out, but Belichick was a very good defensive coordinator prior to becoming a HC. I just think that he was more qualified earlier in his career than Harbaugh. Belichick's defensive game plan from the New York Giants' 2019 upset of the Buffalo Bills in Super Bowl XXV is now in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. So, if Belichick questions one of his coordinators, he does so from a position of far more credibility than Harbaugh does. I just don't see any strong OC or DC thinking that Harbaugh can teach them much of anything about how to do their job better. Harbaugh would have to be able to make up for his Xs and Os shortcomings by being an outstanding leader. I just don't think that he is a great leader.




  6. #90
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    Look, I'm not so blind as to say Harbaugh keeps his job no matter what, but to all of you who are saying you want him replaced with a proven SB coach...

    You are assuming we can push all our chips in and get Payton. But what if he stays with Saints, or goes to Cowboys.

    What other "SB Proven HC" are out there waiting for a job?

    I'll wait for your response....If it's Gruden, I'll continue to wait for your response.
    Bill Cowher!




  7. #91
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Da Vida View Post
    Bill Cowher!
    He said "waiting for a job"

    I don't think Cowher, who has been offered jobs already, is waiting for a coaching gig anymore. I think he likes the studio lifestyle.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #92
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    The successful teams mostly have stability at HC and I don't see that changing in Baltimore
    Especially after the injuries and still making post season
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  9. #93
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    Belichick: 16 years HC experience

    Harbaugh: 5 years HC experience

    Infact Belichick didn't win his first superbowl until year 5. I am just saying.
    He was 5-11 in his 5th year, capping a 36-44 records over his first five years.

    He then opened his New England tenure with another 5-11 record. In his SIXTH season as HC.

    So here is Belichick's first SIX SEASONS -- ONE PLAYOFF WIN, and a 41-55 record.

    It was not until his 7th season that the Pats won the SB.

    Yet an ridiculously large chunk of our "fanbase" seems to think that Harbaugh is garbage and will never succeed at Belichick's level.

    I have no earthly idea how a coach who is currently sporting a 53-24 record through the first five seasons (minus two games) with five (and counting) playoff wins is being trashed while another coach who was 41-55 with one playoff win at the same stage of his career is the greatest thing ever.

    From what I see, and by any objective measure, Harbaugh is having one of the best opening tenures of any NFL coach -- and a far better first 5 seasons than Belichick.
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




  10. #94
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    He was 5-11 in his 5th year, capping a 36-44 records over his first five years.

    He then opened his New England tenure with another 5-11 record. In his SIXTH season as HC.

    So here is Belichick's first SIX SEASONS -- ONE PLAYOFF WIN, and a 41-55 record.

    It was not until his 7th season that the Pats won the SB.

    Yet an ridiculously large chunk of our "fanbase" seems to think that Harbaugh is garbage and will never succeed at Belichick's level.

    I have no earthly idea how a coach who is currently sporting a 53-24 record through the first five seasons (minus two games) with five (and counting) playoff wins is being trashed while another coach who was 41-55 with one playoff win at the same stage of his career is the greatest thing ever.

    From what I see, and by any objective measure, Harbaugh is having one of the best opening tenures of any NFL coach -- and a far better first 5 seasons than Belichick.
    My problem isn't people saying that Belichick is a better coach because he is the better coach. My problem is with people saying Harbaugh will never win a Superbowl or Harbaugh will never do this or never do that. How do you know? If you look at Belichick's track record to start his career, you could have said the same things about him and no one would have questioned it but it didn't turn out that way. Why isn't a guy with a far better early track record getting the benefit of the doubt?




  11. #95
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    The arguments about how Bilicheck didn't become a SB winning coach over night and is an example of how JH can become great after more time are the same arguments as to how Flacco can become great with more time because Brady didn't become a great statistical QB until his fifth year in the league.
    No, it's an example of how not to judge a book by it's cover. If Belichick had been judged off of his early results, he would have never gotten another HC job because he simply wasn't very good. No one knows how the rest of Harbaugh's career will turn out. Why even bother making silly proclamations about his future? If the Ravens win the Superbowl this season, we will look like the dumbest fanbase in the NFL because of threads like this.




  12. #96
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    Re: Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    He said "waiting for a job"

    I don't think Cowher, who has been offered jobs already, is waiting for a coaching gig anymore. I think he likes the studio lifestyle.
    Agreed. I find the clamoring for Gruden to be similarly unrealistic.




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