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  1. #91

    Re: A thought I had...



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    The last two posts are spot on. What baffles me is that some actually acknowledge the bad play of the O line and receivers but then still put all the blame on Joe. Not saying he played good today he did not but he did throw a few really good passes, showed better moves in the pocket I thought and was under ridiculous pressure during the beginning of the game and had no help from the run game. He compunded that by the bad pick and the fumble, not good but hardly all him.

    Some of you only see the bad, he threw one high pass so they were all high, he underthrew or overthrew a reciever so all deep shots were so. In the second Steeler game, there was one guy who said that Torrey had to break up four near INTs on bad deep passes only to have Film come out and say that except for the underthrow, the other ones were catchable or in his opinion throw aways.

    Criticize the man but don't make crap up and watch all of what he does rather than only remember the one bad pass, I have seen all the QBs in the league throw a pick like that one, ask Peyton about the one that lost the Superbowl for him. This doesn't excuse the play it only shows that he like them all are human and can make a bad play or two and that many even the so called elite look bad when their O lines and run games suck. Get him help on the O line and a new system and I think it all turns around.




  2. #92

    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    I'm still trying to find the forum in which this is the majority opinion. Because right now I see the QB getting all the blame for everything going wrong with this offense. Let's see, so far we have a thread about trading for Kurt Cousins, others that want to draft a new QB, get Alex Smith or Matt Flynn and wants to let Flacco walk. So I'm curious how Flacco is getting excuses. Please, on a day like today especially you can more or less swap "Joe Flacco" for "Kyle Boller", and we're having the same discussions minus nutjob Scout posters with three letter names or claims to have watched football for the last 60 years.

    The black/white positions people are taking on the offense are puzzling, considering most reasonable people would seem to think an offense works as a unit. But to some here, if we just understand that Flacco is average, or sucks, or can never get the team in a position to get to a super bowl, or trade him for the Redskins backup QB, somehow the offense will magically learn how to run block and Ray Rice will be unstoppable, our receiving core will never drop a pass, and the QB will never get hit/sacked or throw a pick because Flacco is just an average guy that rode on everyone else's back to get his records and stats.

    No one is absolving Flacco's play today. It was bad. But I'm not putting the entire offensive woes on him, nor am I going to ignore that a good percentage of his play also comes from the OL protection he gets (or doesn't get), or the fact that when he puts the ball in receiver's hands they drop it.
    Ya know, I can't think of a single poster who has said none of this is Joe's fault. I can name numerous in this thread alone who have claimed that everything is Joe's fault.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
    ProFootballMock




  3. #93

    Re: A thought I had...

    hes still in a shitty system, with weak talent, and shitty OL. you cant have all 3 of those negatives and be judged, imo. I dont think hes Elite and capable of making lesser talent awesome currently in this system but i cant conclusively say in a different system he/we cant plug and play personnel a little more. You look at his peers and I dont think any of them have the same situation. Cutler is probably the closest with a bad OL and average WRs but he atleast has a true number 1 in Marshal, which probably points to his own inconsistency. Thats also not saying he still makes mistakes, but not unlike Eli, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.
    -JAB




  4. #94
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    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    I'm still trying to find the forum in which this is the majority opinion. Because right now I see the QB getting all the blame for everything going wrong with this offense. Let's see, so far we have a thread about trading for Kurt Cousins, others that want to draft a new QB, get Alex Smith or Matt Flynn and wants to let Flacco walk. So I'm curious how Flacco is getting excuses. Please, on a day like today especially you can more or less swap "Joe Flacco" for "Kyle Boller", and we're having the same discussions minus nutjob Scout posters with three letter names or claims to have watched football for the last 60 years.

    The black/white positions people are taking on the offense are puzzling, considering most reasonable people would seem to think an offense works as a unit. But to some here, if we just understand that Flacco is average, or sucks, or can never get the team in a position to get to a super bowl, or trade him for the Redskins backup QB, somehow the offense will magically learn how to run block and Ray Rice will be unstoppable, our receiving core will never drop a pass, and the QB will never get hit/sacked or throw a pick because Flacco is just an average guy that rode on everyone else's back to get his records and stats.

    No one is absolving Flacco's play today. It was bad. But I'm not putting the entire offensive woes on him, nor am I going to ignore that a good percentage of his play also comes from the OL protection he gets (or doesn't get), or the fact that when he puts the ball in receiver's hands they drop it.
    The reality is that if you point out how Flacco can be decent with a solid supporting cast then you're making excuses for Flacco and are drinking purple kool aid and seemingly are wearing purple sunglasses.
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  5. #95
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    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    hes still in a shitty system, with weak talent, and shitty OL. you cant have all 3 of those negatives and be judged, imo. I dont think hes Elite and capable of making lesser talent awesome currently in this system but i cant conclusively say in a different system he/we cant plug and play personnel a little more. You look at his peers and I dont think any of them have the same situation. Cutler is probably the closest with a bad OL and average WRs but he atleast has a true number 1 in Marshal, which probably points to his own inconsistency. Thats also not saying he still makes mistakes, but not unlike Eli, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.
    Actually, the Bears are a good comparison (offensively). Outside of Brandon MArshall (who IMO is one of the top 7 receivers in the league), they don't have much and their OL is really bad too. Even Matt Forte's numbers are down. The only difference between Cutler and Flacco is Cutler is a punk who can't stay healthy all year.

    But, I think if you were to give Cutler a better OL, a better TE, and 1 more decent receiving option (maybe that will be Alshon Jeffery?), then I think you'd see Cutler doing a lot of things that he isn't/can't now.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



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  6. #96

    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Actually, the Bears are a good comparison (offensively). Outside of Brandon MArshall (who IMO is one of the top 7 receivers in the league), they don't have much and their OL is really bad too. Even Matt Forte's numbers are down. The only difference between Cutler and Flacco is Cutler is a punk who can't stay healthy all year.

    But, I think if you were to give Cutler a better OL, a better TE, and 1 more decent receiving option (maybe that will be Alshon Jeffery?), then I think you'd see Cutler doing a lot of things that he isn't/can't now.
    agreed. In Den, he was a top QB with the leagues top Offense. move him to Chi, take away his top WR, a worse OL, and hes been pretty average with more INTs and plagued by inconsistency. Sounds like Flacco, minus like you said, health and the fact that Flacco still doesnt throw that many INTs, people just harp on them. Right system, OL, or WR talent, or some combination of the 3 I cant say he doesnt become more consistent.

    Anyone blaming Flacco for wasting a good defense, should at least question the FO for still not getting Flacco a legitimate #1, i know its easier said than done, but still a viable complaint, imo. The only teams im not envious of their WR talent are teams that are never in the conversation for comparing him too. Pitt, NE, Den, Atl, NYG, Chi, GB, NO, etc. They all have at worst, a legitimate #1 target.
    -JAB




  7. #97

    Re: A thought I had...

    I've been a huge Flacco fan during his entire tenure here and have defended him time and time again when his ability has been questioned. I maintain that he still could be a good quarterback when surrounded by a lot of elite talent with a supportive playcaller.

    But I'm starting to look at things in a new light now, and chiefly because of two things: 1) ball security, and 2) decision-making. I simply can't abide a quarterback who is a persistent threat to turn the ball over at any time. I always called for the QB sneak in short yardage because it's the highest-percentage option, but after Joe fumbled on a routine sneak yesterday they probably shouldn't run that play anymore. He just can't hang onto the ball when hit.

    He's also still making 5 or 6 terrible throws a game--the kind of throws that NFL QBs don't make. If you remember, he actually threw several near-picks in both the Cincinnati and New England games, the only difference is the DBs didn't quite make the play. Yesterday, he threw another one at the goal line, a horrible decision and throw that he needs to know not to do by now.

    I just don't think he's improving in those areas. He's terribly inconsistent from game to game, quarter to quarter, and snap to snap. If he had an elite pass-blocking line and elite pass-catchers, he would surely look a lot better. I would love to see him play under a new coordinator. But I don't think any of those things will help the innate flaws Flacco had, flaws which I excused previously since any player has flaws in his game. I'm not sure if I want to excuse them anymore.




  8. #98
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    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Actually, the Bears are a good comparison (offensively). Outside of Brandon MArshall (who IMO is one of the top 7 receivers in the league), they don't have much and their OL is really bad too. Even Matt Forte's numbers are down. The only difference between Cutler and Flacco is Cutler is a punk who can't stay healthy all year.

    But, I think if you were to give Cutler a better OL, a better TE, and 1 more decent receiving option (maybe that will be Alshon Jeffery?), then I think you'd see Cutler doing a lot of things that he isn't/can't now.
    Jets are a good comparison IMO. Weak OLine, and marginal run game at times, mediocre receivers and QB. Same as the Ravens.

    Sanchez can look good if he has 10 seconds to throw it, and a running game to feed off play action. Same as Flacco. But in today's NFL things are changing; I think if you don't have a top tier QB you need a guy that can run the zone/read, etc.
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