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  1. #31
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins



    Flacco isn't going anywhere. I think they franchise him. Bring in a QB via draft (3rd round or higher) and a new OC.




  2. #32
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenous1 View Post
    I think you address those positions in the first couple round of the draft rather than letting him go and overpaying via free agency for line help.

    Not suggesting a redo of both lines but rather moving up and getting a stud Oline or Dline guy and then getting another guy in the second who could step in and play at a KO level. Thats doable IMO

    You may have to let some guys go you would rather keep like Ray, Ed, Boldin, Leach etc.... tough choices will have to be made. If you get rid of Joe but do not address the lines you may as well let those guys go anyway cause your not winning with a rookie QB or Alex Smith and the lines the way they are currently constructed.
    They're not winning next year anyway in my opinion. They need to rebuilt. The big question is how to do it and who is the core that you build around? Does Flacco become a an albatross like Palmer was to the Bengals or Vick is to the Eagles? The money is so huge that they better be right.

    You either need a cheaper QB and let him grow with expensive pieces around him or an expensive QB who is good enough that you can get away with cheaper talent around him. The latter is what the Steelers and Patriots do. The former is what the Ravens and 49ers have done. Now we're at a crossroads and they really need to decide which road to take for the next 5 years.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  3. #33
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    As good as Ozzie has been overall with drafting players, he doesn't have a good track record drafting QBs or WRs. I think he has missed on every QB and WR he has drafted in the entire time the Ravens have been in Baltimore, except for Flacco and Torry Smith. Maybe you could make a case for Stokely, but most of what he did was accomplished after he left the Ravens. That said, the only way I would be interested in retaining Flacco, would be if he agrees to a reasonable contract. Otherwise, franchise him and trade him. Regardless, I would take a long look at Tyler Wilson in the second round next year.




  4. #34
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    They're not winning next year anyway in my opinion. They need to rebuilt. The big question is how to do it and who is the core that you build around? Does Flacco become a an albatross like Palmer was to the Bengals or Vick is to the Eagles? The money is so huge that they better be right.

    You either need a cheaper QB and let him grow with expensive pieces around him or an expensive QB who is good enough that you can get away with cheaper talent around him. The latter is what the Steelers and Patriots do. The former is what the Ravens and 49ers have done. Now we're at a crossroads and they really need to decide which road to take for the next 5 years.
    I agree with you here. I guess my thought is that you already know that Joe can win with good personnel around him. They were a dropped pass away from a SB

    If you draft a guy then you have a totally unknown quantity. We saw with Boller that if your QB totally bombs, it does not really matter how good the rest of the team is.

    Everyone wants an elite QB, there are only a few though or else the "elite" word has no value. Short of having that "elite" guy, the next best you can hope for is a guy like Joe who can win with the right pieces around him. I think people get so wrapped up in wanting elite they forget that guys who WIN with the right guys around them are very valuable also. Joe has proven with the right pieces he can win. Sometimes the grass is not greener.

    Last but not least your odds of throwing stuff against the wall and hoping something sticks are much better at just about every position in the NFL than QB IMO. Joe may not ever be what we wished he would turn into but he has significant value. This team has 9 wins DESPITE everything that has gone wrong, he deserves some credit for that. Its not like Rice (cause of how we have used him) or anyone else on the offense has more to do with that than Joe. Its also not as if the D (injuries) has done much to contribute to that win total.
    “A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,”
    -Ray Lewis




  5. #35
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Could this just be a bad year for Flacco? I'm not riding his junk as much as I was in year's past, but I think the franchise QB search is a roll of the dice. Boller was on other team's radars too. People hyped up Josh Freeman. Rex Grossman was once considered a great QB prospect. People on this board practically NUTTED over drafting Colt Brennan or Colt McCoy. Someone show me the name of a QB available from 15 or later that will SURE FIRE be better than Joe...
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


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  6. #36
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    Holy crap. Colt Brennan. That's a name I haven't heard in a while.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  7. #37

    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    What about setting Flacco free & signing Alex Smith? Is he just a late bloomer? I think he would get good money but maybe not the bucks that Flacco would be seeking? I could be way off base.

    Of course, fixing the line is huge as well & getting any QB is a lost cause without the line being solid. Do they give Oher his deal and keep him at LT, keep K.O. at RT, Yanda at RG, Gradkowski takes over C and draft a solid LG with a first or second round pick?

    I know that Oher is probably a better RT but how many sacks attributed to him were due to Flacco's lack of pocket presence & not stepping up in the pocket?




  8. #38
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Only if Flacco agrees to take what the Ravens offer him. If not he might want to try his luck in Oakland or Buffalo or Arizona
    I think he gets the tag this time around. If he he has another bad year he will be gone.
    "Screw it, let's ride"!




  9. #39

    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    Could this just be a bad year for Flacco? I'm not riding his junk as much as I was in year's past, but I think the franchise QB search is a roll of the dice. Boller was on other team's radars too. People hyped up Josh Freeman. Rex Grossman was once considered a great QB prospect. People on this board practically NUTTED over drafting Colt Brennan or Colt McCoy. Someone show me the name of a QB available from 15 or later that will SURE FIRE be better than Joe...
    Every QB has had a bad season or two, look up some of the greats. I am not excusing Joe for bad play but this whole season is just weird to me. Everyone is all about Luck and RG3, I have seen that along wil Wilson and the other rookie QBs that some anylysts already want to compare this to the 83 class. That is just bull, these kids have not accomplished anything yet and its unfair to put that pressure on them. if next yuear thye struggle like many 2nd years QBs do and can will people flip on them and say thye suck? Sure will, only time will tell how good they end up being, all you cna say for now is so far so good but what about next year when expectations go up?


    Joe has shown that he can be clutch at times, more often than not has succeeded in being clutch so he can put the team on his shoulders but he still needs help fore the rest of the time, namely an Oline that can consistently block well, they, like Joe seem to almost be good and bad game to game or quarter to quarter some times. Joe made some nice throws today when they gave him time and he had better pocket precense, running out of it a couple of times and throwing it away.

    No that does not exucse the INT but that was also a horrible play call, should have had Torrey cut underneath toward the middle, I don't think they have run a play like that before or if so not in a while and Joe did not have time to read the D, what he did wronmg was look at Q but I am not sure if most if not all QBs would have done thath, he got the snap, looked at him and then threw and the DB read it right obviously and the throw looked slow and poor as well, no excuse for it but that may be an example of setting him up to fail, another thing he should have done is said I am not running this play, call a TO and talk about it.

    I did see some good play calls today, on David's Reed reception he ran an out with a cut. Someone talked about last week that the O does not run routes that 'break the DBs ankles" well that did, the DB actualfly tripped over his own feet I think so there is some hope I believe.




  10. #40
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    Could this just be a bad year for Flacco? I'm not riding his junk as much as I was in year's past, but I think the franchise QB search is a roll of the dice. Boller was on other team's radars too. People hyped up Josh Freeman. Rex Grossman was once considered a great QB prospect. People on this board practically NUTTED over drafting Colt Brennan or Colt McCoy. Someone show me the name of a QB available from 15 or later that will SURE FIRE be better than Joe...
    I don't think so. His stats this year are very similar to the stats in his first 4 seasons. I think he's reached his potential. He's an average QB.




  11. #41
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenMan View Post
    Every QB has had a bad season or two, look up some of the greats. I am not excusing Joe for bad play but this whole season is just weird to me. Everyone is all about Luck and RG3, I have seen that along wil Wilson and the other rookie QBs that some anylysts already want to compare this to the 83 class. That is just bull, these kids have not accomplished anything yet and its unfair to put that pressure on them. if next yuear thye struggle like many 2nd years QBs do and can will people flip on them and say thye suck? Sure will, only time will tell how good they end up being, all you cna say for now is so far so good but what about next year when expectations go up?


    Joe has shown that he can be clutch at times, more often than not has succeeded in being clutch so he can put the team on his shoulders but he still needs help fore the rest of the time, namely an Oline that can consistently block well, they, like Joe seem to almost be good and bad game to game or quarter to quarter some times. Joe made some nice throws today when they gave him time and he had better pocket precense, running out of it a couple of times and throwing it away.

    No that does not exucse the INT but that was also a horrible play call, should have had Torrey cut underneath toward the middle, I don't think they have run a play like that before or if so not in a while and Joe did not have time to read the D, what he did wronmg was look at Q but I am not sure if most if not all QBs would have done thath, he got the snap, looked at him and then threw and the DB read it right obviously and the throw looked slow and poor as well, no excuse for it but that may be an example of setting him up to fail, another thing he should have done is said I am not running this play, call a TO and talk about it.

    I did see some good play calls today, on David's Reed reception he ran an out with a cut. Someone talked about last week that the O does not run routes that 'break the DBs ankles" well that did, the DB actualfly tripped over his own feet I think so there is some hope I believe.
    This is kind've where I'm at. That pick 6 was the back breaker. The problem is that in year 5, having those bonehead moments really starts to shake your confidence in him. I think we're all of the opinion, Joe is never going to be that "elite" level of QB. But can he still be the above average - good QB that can take a talented team and put them in position to succeed? Remains to be seen a bit.

    Interested to see how negotiations play out. I really can't see Linta coming at us with the same numbers. He's got to know Joe's value has plummeted this year. I'd like to see if we can "Alex Smith" him and look for a QB in rounds 2-4 that could push him to either be better or out of the starting job. If he plays better, we have a solid backup, ala Cousins.
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  12. #42
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Quote Originally Posted by rjslomo View Post
    What about setting Flacco free & signing Alex Smith? Is he just a late bloomer? I think he would get good money but maybe not the bucks that Flacco would be seeking? I could be way off base.

    Of course, fixing the line is huge as well & getting any QB is a lost cause without the line being solid. Do they give Oher his deal and keep him at LT, keep K.O. at RT, Yanda at RG, Gradkowski takes over C and draft a solid LG with a first or second round pick?

    I know that Oher is probably a better RT but how many sacks attributed to him were due to Flacco's lack of pocket presence & not stepping up in the pocket?
    Joe is 9-5 with a defense that leaks like a sieve (injuries and attrition)
    Receivers who drop balls pretty frequently
    An offensive system that kinda sucks IMO
    An offensive line that kinda sucks IMO

    Joe has many deficiencies, knowing how to win is not one of them. With enough decent talent around him he can make it work. Ray Rice has a lot to do with 9 wins but so does Joe. If I came on here and read the board and did not know better you would think that Joe was losing with none of those issues above. People wanna bail now that we have lost 3 straight. Whats more likely, Joe forgot how to win or that the injuries and the toll they have taken are finally catching up with this team.

    Calm down. Joe is Joe. He is not elite but he is a winner IMO. 5yrs in the playoffs if thats not enough for some people, by all means dump him. You just may not like how that scenario plays out if we get unlucky and draft Kyle Boller part Deux.
    “A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,”
    -Ray Lewis




  13. Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenous1 View Post
    Joe is 9-5 with a defense that leaks like a sieve (injuries and attrition)
    Receivers who drop balls pretty frequently
    An offensive system that kinda sucks IMO
    An offensive line that kinda sucks IMO

    Joe has many deficiencies, knowing how to win is not one of them. With enough decent talent around him he can make it work. Ray Rice has a lot to do with 9 wins but so does Joe. If I came on here and read the board and did not know better you would think that Joe was losing with none of those issues above. People wanna bail now that we have lost 3 straight. Whats more likely, Joe forgot how to win or that the injuries and the toll they have taken are finally catching up with this team.

    Calm down. Joe is Joe. He is not elite but he is a winner IMO. 5yrs in the playoffs if thats not enough for some people, by all means dump him. You just may not like how that scenario plays out if we get unlucky and draft Kyle Boller part Deux.
    Essentially you're saying that because we can do worse than Joe, we can't do better. I respectfully disagree. Especially since its not happening in a vacuum, money comes into play and it very much matters what Joe is commanding.




  14. #44

    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    The excuses are alive and well.

    It's simply ridiculous that issues I have stated in detail over the past YEARS(!) are still issues and some folks are still excusing them. Twisting themselves in knots for the silver lining. For years now I have been critical of Joe and Ozzie. The problems are so obvious (poor talent evaluation, poor instincts and awareness at QB, along with inconsistent accuracy) and are mounting. This team is in trouble.




  15. #45
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    Re: Trade for Kirk cousins

    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMad View Post
    The excuses are alive and well.

    It's simply ridiculous that issues I have stated in detail over the past YEARS(!) are still issues and some folks are still excusing them. Twisting themselves in knots for the silver lining. For years now I have been critical of Joe and Ozzie. The problems are so obvious (poor talent evaluation, poor instincts and awareness at QB, along with inconsistent accuracy) and are mounting. This team is in trouble.
    In the past though your cap wasn't going to be crippled by what you had to pay your QB. You can put players around Flacco at his rookie contract cap value. It's a lot harder to do that when you have to pay him $14 in a season or $100 million for the next bunch of years.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




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