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  1. #76
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    You're using semantics to the extreme.

    Just because they do something with those beliefs in mind does not mean they're representative of their side / cause.

    Under your logic, if a Ravens fan kills a Steelers fan that person is then representative of Ravens as a collective simply because he's a Ravens fan.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #77
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    More nut jobs.

    I have a buddy who listens to Jones as if he was God. Very sad actually.
    One would think he was by the way he talks.

    Conspiracy Theorists are one thing...but hardcore Christian Conspiracy Theorists? That's just a whole new set of "odd" for me. However, I guess if someone were to try and cast doubt on...well..anything, then using religion as a backdrop would only amplify the doubt.
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  3. #78

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    You're using semantics to the extreme.

    Just because they do something with those beliefs in mind does not mean they're representative of their side / cause.

    Under your logic, if a Ravens fan kills a Steelers fan that person is then representative of Ravens as a collective simply because he's a Ravens fan.
    Is he still not a Ravens fan? yeah... its sucks and we all arent murderers just because he is, but hes still a Ravens fan, whether we want to accept it or not.
    -JAB




  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Is he still not a Ravens fan? yeah... its sucks and we all arent murderers just because he is, but hes still a Ravens fan, whether we want to accept it or not.
    Yes, but he's not "representative" of Ravens fans.

    I think you might want to look up the definition of representative and apply it within the proper context.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  5. #80

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yes, but he's not "representative" of Ravens fans.

    I think you might want to look up the definition of representative and apply it within the proper context.
    well you either view it as the whole being represented by 1, or each individually representing the whole. Your choice. breaking it down, left/right, as many do, their views still align with one side more than the other, even if extreme. thats not saying theyre the majority opinion, but to say theyre not apart at all isnt true.

    By your definition, somebody could be a straight party memeber per views, but because of their action they take, not the belief, theyre not one in the same.
    -JAB




  6. #81
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Bull.

    Yes, both have their nut jobs but just because they happen to be on the extreme sides of left or right does not mean they're representative of either group.

    So Eco-Terrorists are representing the left in this country?

    Fringe folks represent the fringe and nothing more.


    Some people just don't understand the concept of individualism.

    Just because some people share some views, doesn't mean they share every view. No one walks, talks, thinks, acts or looks exactly like me, we are all different.

    I'd like to know what "the right" or "the left" is anyway. Where are these meetings and what do they talk about there?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #82
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Galen and Trap mastered that concept.

    The two of them would go in circles because some yahoo would do something and it would be characterized that the entire left / right was somehow culpable.

    It's a horrible fallacy but one that's used quite often, particularly in the opinion based media outlets (FNC, MSNBC et all).

    "If an individual in group A believes something, than all of A must believe the same".
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #83
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    It's impossible to rationalize an extreme world view without being able to put everyone and everything into a box.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  9. #84

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    so on the gun control issue, you wouldnt define yourselves as conservative?
    -JAB




  10. #85
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    so on the gun control issue, you wouldnt define yourselves as conservative?
    No. More guns, less control, etc is a very liberal position (small "L").

    But the position itself, if you're looking for a tidy box to put it in, is more Libertarian than anything.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #86

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    No. More guns, less control, etc is a very liberal position (small "L").

    But the position itself, if you're looking for a tidy box to put it in, is more Libertarian than anything.
    so gun control is the old view and more guns, less regulation is the new "liberal" view. I dont think so, im not sure how you can say that gun control is a traditional value.

    regulating vs not is a conservative vs liberal with the "new view" being to regulate more. Thats not a tidy little box, thats the basis of the argument.
    -JAB




  12. #87
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    so gun control is the old view and more guns, less regulation is the new "liberal" view. I dont think so, im not sure how you can say that gun control is a traditional value.

    regulating vs not is a conservative vs liberal with the "new view" being to regulate more. Thats not a tidy little box, thats the basis of the argument.
    You're completely not getting it and you're not understanding the terms that are being defined here.

    Maybe that's on me. Given the discussion up till now, I assumed you've taken a Poli Sci class or two. Not a slam on you, JAB, but you're not grasping the terms or are misapplying them.

    First, you claimed that the conspiracy theory offered by Wicked was "representative" of the right. The term "representative" means a generality amongst the group, in your case "the right". This is fallacious on many levels, the most obvious being the fallacy I listed: "If member of group A believes something, all of group A believe it".

    Second, you're not understanding the nuance of the terms I am using. When I say less regulation, more guns, etc is liberal, I qualified it as small "L" thinking. Meaning, I am using the dictionary definition of liberal, not the political classification of Liberal (although, since you like to be overly technical, less gun control falls under Classical Liberalism in terms of political theory). Texas, for example is liberal with it's gun laws. Maryland, by contrast, is more conservative in their approach. Again, not the political classifications but the dictionary definitions.

    Dictionary definitions rarely line up with their political, theoretical counterparts.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  13. #88
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Not a fan of wiki, but this page does a good job at explaining Classical Liberalism. Simply put, today's Conservative / Libertarian is practicing Classical Liberalism.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  14. #89

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    First, you claimed that the conspiracy theory offered by Wicked was "representative" of the right. The term "representative" means a generality amongst the group, in your case "the right". This is fallacious on many levels, the most obvious being the fallacy I listed: "If member of group A believes something, all of group A believe it".
    if youre going to say the Right is not generally known for their "liberal" views on gun laws, than were going to just disagree. Saying the right media/politicians/NRA has portrayed Obama as anti-guns, is nothing more than factual. Look at any of the last elections. generalizing the group may not be 100% accurate to all of its constituents, but thats the case whenever stating Conservative or Liberal, Right or Left. Its a blanket generalization of the norm. This guys action of forming a conspiracy is not the representation i was speaking of, but his view on gun laws and in combination that Obama is anti-gun, certainly is from the majority of Conservatives I have followed. Being Anit-guns tends to be a Liberal generalization. liberal gun laws and painting Obama as anti-guns are both things that Ive debated against on this very site. Saying those two things dont represent your beliefs because this guy is nuts about how far hes taking it, doesnt mean the basic opinions dont match, which is why i still distinguished him as an "extremist" and not just a normal representative. The views are the same but the action is different. Thats not saying im calling anybody that believes the basic argument a nut job, but anyone that takes that action. You dont agree that at the end of the day hes just a guy trying to protect his 2nd amendment right, although in a different way? that action is outside the norm, but as far as his political views its hard to say it doesnt fit the company line, so to speak. In other words hes representing, but hes not a good representative.

    Second, you're not understanding the nuance of the terms I am using. When I say less regulation, more guns, etc is liberal, I qualified it as small "L" thinking. Meaning, I am using the dictionary definition of liberal, not the political classification of Liberal (although, since you like to be overly technical, less gun control falls under Classical Liberalism in terms of political theory). Texas, for example is liberal with it's gun laws. Maryland, by contrast, is more conservative in their approach. Again, not the political classifications but the dictionary definitions.
    This is fine, and i understood what your were saying but its just contrary to the point I was trying to make. Conservative vs conservative and Liberal vs liberal. I may not have capitalized properly from time to time, which would get confusing. my apologies.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 12-20-2012 at 06:31 PM.
    -JAB




  15. #90

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Jonboy said that teachers should have the option to have a firearm in school.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-guns/1781663/

    I'm okay with that too. Having armed policemen at the school would also be a huge help.

    As for the idea of flagging multiple ammo purchases, that is an idea I'm all for. I'm not an avid hunter by any stretch of the imagination but you don't need to buy 3,000 rounds of ammo to go hunting. Ordering that much ammo should've raised a few eyebrows, yet the gunman had bullets delivered to his doorstep without so much as a visit from the police.
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