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  1. #49
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    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal



    How much responsibility for not acting on Cam sooner do you guys think Bisciotti is putting on Harbaugh?




  2. #50
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    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    How much responsibility for not acting on Cam sooner do you guys think Bisciotti is putting on Harbaugh?
    I would imagine a fair amount.

    I mean, if - and only if - simply because 2 years ago Harbs claimed that he was going to get "more involved" with the offense. He also claimed that he was going to try and foster a better relationship between Flacco and Cam. Obviously, that never happened.
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  3. #51
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    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    How much responsibility for not acting on Cam sooner do you guys think Bisciotti is putting on Harbaugh?
    All of it I would imagine.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #52

    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    Just read on my Twitter feed from Matt Vensel (ESPN STATS):

    Flacco has overthrown his receivers for an incompletion on 18.6% of attempts, highest in NFL.

    Now the media folks will probably think "Flacco sucks".

    But as discussed in this thread and in others, this stat is largely a result of the play calls by Cam.

    In SD and the first Pitt game, Joe notably overthrew a lot of sideline passes to Torrey.

    However, this is because exactly what Boldin confronted Cam over at SD: the CBs were sitting and waiting because they KNEW we would be calling the same routes over and over. The play was called, the CB knew it, had position and Joe had to overthrow Torrey et al. so as to not throw an INT.

    On paper the stat looks bad but it is easily explained as a symptom of Cam's dumb ass, inflexible, redundant playcalling.

    I hope Caldwell's offense comes out with more variation and short passes.




  5. #53

    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    What are the odds Cam gets canned if Batch throws a wounded duck INT on their last drive and Cousins fumbles the snap on the 2-pt conversion and it fails?

    Opinions/guesses?

    I say 0%.




  6. #54

    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    This thread is as good as any to summarize my thoughts on Cam. I think Cossell would concur with them.

    1. Cam is not a bad OC. Before you grab your torches and pitchforks let me explain. Cam is the OC equivalent of training wheels. When Joe was making the adjustment to the NFL, Cam provided a safe, easily digested playbook that maximized on Joe's ability to sling the ball to the sidelines and protected him with a stout run game. For Joe, this meant that while he wasn't going to put up huge numbers, he also was unlikely to fail spectacularly and flame out. When you consider Cam in that light, he is a great first coordinator. He gets your QB into the game, protects him from early mistakes, while still putting your team in a position to win. I don't think it's a coincidence that Brees, Rivers, and Joe all looked pretty good under Cam, and then two of them looked pretty great after he left.

    2. Just like training wheels eventually they stop being useful and become a hindrance, Cam's inability to up the complexity of his scheme means Joe isn't allowed to grow. He's stuck with training wheels long after he grows out of them. When he should be learning to pop wheelies and jump off a ramp, he's stuck on his little four wheeled Huffy. And then when the game situation demands he makes a huge jump, he can sometimes do it spite of his training wheels, but other times he comes up short.

    Cam was an integral part of our getting to our first AFC championship game. He was a stabilizing force that kept our team in position to win as long as the D could play at a top level and keep us within a score or two. But now we need to move on. The training wheels need to come off. The bike needs to get bigger. And we need to be going a lot faster.

    Hopefully we can do it. But don't be surprised if we fall down a couple times while Joe gets used to his new bike.
    Especially to the bolded, I know Flacco was sincere in saying that Cam had a lot to do with his development (which is true) but now (or perhaps in the offseason) it was time to cut the safety chord and sink or swim.




  7. #55

    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    What are the odds Cam gets canned if Batch throws a wounded duck INT on their last drive and Cousins fumbles the snap on the 2-pt conversion and it fails?

    Opinions/guesses?

    I say 0%.
    Obviously upset losses exaggerate issues, but the offense simply has not advanced, and was wildly inconsistent.

    Cam tried to mold the players into his system instead of molding the system to the players. This is long overdue - it just took a mini shit storm to bring it about. People think it's crazy for a 9-4 team to fire their coordinator, imagine if we did it at 11-2. You are right, it probably wouldn't have happened.




  8. #56

    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I do find it interesting that he's VERY critical of our wide receivers in addition to the scheme. He said back in 2010 that we had the slowest WR corps in the league and not a single player could beat man coverage. He's still saying that now despite adding a lot of talent and speed with Torrey and Jacoby.
    Mason and Boldin were/are guilty of charges. Torrey is underutilized beyond go routes.




  9. #57

    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    I keep reading comments saying that Joe needs to move outside the pocket and extend plays as well as throw it away more when nothing is there. At first glance, I was in agreement but really, the more I'm thinking about it, I'm not so sure he could realistically do either. The pocket frequently collapses so quickly that he'd have to take the snap and bolt almost immediately on a lot of plays. Instead, he stands in a dirty pocket and tries to make a play. And if he threw it away every time nobody is open right away, that would be a lot since our WRs getting open is the exception and not the rule. Just some random thoughts while bored at work.....




  10. #58

    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    What are the odds Cam gets canned if Batch throws a wounded duck INT on their last drive and Cousins fumbles the snap on the 2-pt conversion and it fails?

    Opinions/guesses?

    I say 0%.
    I am fascinated with that what if. I agree 0%, but just that they discussed it post 1st Steeler game is crazy. I guess they were convinced at that point that Cam had to go, but after the season. It took Stevie B having major meltdowns watching both losses.

    The 2nd 'What If' I'm wondering is say we beat the Redskins, Cam stays and everything on the surface is hunky dory since we win the AFC North. Stevie B is still livid at Cam, but his questioning of Harbs steering the ship grows stronger b/c of Harbs backing Cam's shenanigans. Say we lose that Wildcard game at home with the same shit that plagues the Ravens. Obviously, Stevie B would be even more pissed. In the scenario, do you think he cans John? I'd think there would be a chance. By canning Cam now, the situation is diffused and I think the heat on Harbs is lessened now.




  11. #59

    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    What are the odds Cam gets canned if Batch throws a wounded duck INT on their last drive and Cousins fumbles the snap on the 2-pt conversion and it fails?

    Opinions/guesses?

    I say 0%.
    I agree. Perspective is everything... why do you think the media, by and large, has been against the Cam move, calling it a "panic reaction" and bleating over and over again "this team is 9-4, 9-4 teams don't do this, 9-4, 9-4, 9-4...."

    Because of cognitive bias, specifically a kind of outcome bias... mistakenly assuming that the outcome of a decision or event tells you all you need to know about whether the correct decisions were made and actions taken. The problem is that decisions made with imperfect information (which is 99.999% of all decisions) can't be evaluated that way.

    I'm sure it's already been done before, but the cognitive psychology of coaches is definitely worthy studying. They seem particularly prone to unnecessarily risk averse thinking and biased decision-making.




  12. #60
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    Re: Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    I am fascinated with that what if. I agree 0%, but just that they discussed it post 1st Steeler game is crazy. I guess they were convinced at that point that Cam had to go, but after the season. It took Stevie B having major meltdowns watching both losses.

    The 2nd 'What If' I'm wondering is say we beat the Redskins, Cam stays and everything on the surface is hunky dory since we win the AFC North. Stevie B is still livid at Cam, but his questioning of Harbs steering the ship grows stronger b/c of Harbs backing Cam's shenanigans. Say we lose that Wildcard game at home with the same shit that plagues the Ravens. Obviously, Stevie B would be even more pissed. In the scenario, do you think he cans John? I'd think there would be a chance. By canning Cam now, the situation is diffused and I think the heat on Harbs is lessened now.
    I have been saying for a while that I don't think Bisciotti is anywhere near as attached to Harbaugh and Flacco as many posters think he is. I think Bisciotti is sold on Flacco, but not at the price Flacco wants, unless Flacco can drastically improve his consistency. I also think that Bisciotti is going to hold Harbaugh accountable for not correcting what was wrong with the Ravens offense sooner. If Biciotti concludes that the reason the offense was not corrected sooner was because Harbaugh wasn't knowledgeable enough to do it (since he has never been a coordinator), or because he wasn't strong enough to get Cam to comply, then I think that there is a good chance that he will eventually fire Harbaugh.




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