Good stuff from Greg Cosell on Cam after his dismissal

**SugarRay52** · 12-12-2012, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Cosell is just a fantastic analyst. He knows football, period, and he has no qualms about letting people know that what they think is happening is not actually happening cuz film don't lie.

I've read everything he's written about the Ravens and it's all spot on. He's been tremendously critical of Cam throughout his entire tenure and has always said this offense is schemed terribly. I think he got as close to saying "Cam Cameron is a bad offensive coordinator" as he could without actually saying that.

I do find it interesting that he's VERY critical of our wide receivers in addition to the scheme. He said back in 2010 that we had the slowest WR corps in the league and not a single player could beat man coverage. He's still saying that now despite adding a lot of talent and speed with Torrey and Jacoby.

I still think the way the WRs have been coached--rounding off routes, etc.--is a huge factor in that. It's not as if we don't have talent at WR.

I like Cosell too and he was the only person to blame Cam for the weak performance in the playoff game against Houston when the other media idiots destroyed Joe.

**The Excellector** · 12-12-2012, 07:54 PM

Greg Cosell has long had his issues with Cam Cameron's system. This time around, he was more careful about directly criticizing Cam Cameron. However, he has done so in the past.

He did a segment on ESPN Radio the Monday following the Ravens playoff victory over the Texans, saying "Ed Reed needs to shut up", in response to Reed's criticism of Joe Flacco, explaining how difficult it has been for Flacco to succeed in Cameron's essentially archaic system.

If I were to summarize his issues with each aspect of the offense:

Cameron: His administration of the system is too aged and strenuous on the players, not playing to their strengths

Flacco: His internal clock needs to improve

WRs: Need to do a better job of beating man coverage

Offensive Line: Struggles in pass protection.

In short, you have a circle effect. The WRs aren't getting open. The line isn't blocking for the deep throws to develop. Joe isn't helping the line with his internal clock. The WRs aren't helping Joe. The scheme isn't helping anybody.

**RavenScallywag** · 12-12-2012, 08:06 PM

It's good to hear this...

I've been really concerned as of late that Joe really has been ruined. Hopefully, with a fresh set of eyes calling the plays, we can see his development get back on track. I don't expect him ever to put his name among Brady or Manning or Brees. But he's definitely an above average QB who can do enough things on offense along with other components to put something good on the field.

**LukeDaniel** · 12-12-2012, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I still think the way the WRs have been coached--rounding off routes, etc.--is a huge factor in that. It's not as if we don't have talent at WR.

Could that be why it seems like Flacco is always overthrowing Torrey on those 15-20 yard sideline routes?

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-12-2012, 08:53 PM

I've always been a little cynical towards Cossell because he completely dismisses the system but he pretty much nailed it. And thanks guys for summarizing.

**BigPlayReceiver** · 12-12-2012, 08:54 PM

Love me some Greg Cosell.

**leachisabeast** · 12-12-2012, 08:55 PM

As usual he is correct about everything.

I will say this though, WR's struggling to get separation vs press may have been a pure talent issue in 2010, but now with the likes of Torrey Smith, this HAS to be a coaching issue IMO, as well as a scheme issue.

**bacchys** · 12-12-2012, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

Great stuff. Completely agree regarding Joe's internal clock but I think it's deficient to begin with because he was playing in a system that didn't require a quick internal clock. Hopefully we eliminate these isolation routes and get creative with our passing attacks. Speed up the tempo and and you'll speed up Joe's internal clock.

I don't know how well you can judge Joe's internal clock when it's a rare play that provides a quick safety outlet. He either has to hold the ball or throw it away if the receivers don't quickly beat their man, and he definitely prefers to make a play than just throw it away.

That thread awhile back that linked a site explaining the difference between Home Joe and Road Joe noted he seemed more comfortable holding the ball and shifting around in the pocket when he's in The Vault. He's been more willing to let the play develop, and that takes time. We need more plays, or at least more options, for a quick pass, I think, before we start assuming the problem is Flacco doesn't feel the pass rush well enough.

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-13-2012, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

Great stuff. Completely agree regarding Joe's internal clock but I think it's deficient to begin with because he was playing in a system that didn't require a quick internal clock. Hopefully we eliminate these isolation routes and get creative with our passing attacks. Speed up the tempo and and you'll speed up Joe's internal clock.

TOTALLY!!!

**PerpetuallyBored74** · 12-13-2012, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

It's good to hear this...

I've been really concerned as of late that Joe really has been ruined. Hopefully, with a fresh set of eyes calling the plays, we can see his development get back on track. I don't expect him ever to put his name among Brady or Manning or Brees. But he's definitely an above average QB who can do enough things on offense along with other components to put something good on the field.

Remember the first game against the Bengals? When Joe ran the no-huddle to near perfection? When Joe and the receivers looked dominant? When the gameplan actually included short routes and ones across the middle of the field? Where we saw Joe getting rid of the ball quickly and on time with pinpoint accuracy?

A gameplan which has been rumored to have been devised by Caldwell?

I don't think we need to worry about Joe being ruined, though it might take awhile for him to get back to that level of play--remember, he'd been working on it for months all throughout training camp and the preseason--after being forced these past few months to try and make the most of Cam's often untenable scheme.

**ActualSpamBot** · 12-13-2012, 03:45 AM

This thread is as good as any to summarize my thoughts on Cam. I think Cossell would concur with them.

1. Cam is not a bad OC. Before you grab your torches and pitchforks let me explain. Cam is the OC equivalent of training wheels. When Joe was making the adjustment to the NFL, Cam provided a safe, easily digested playbook that maximized on Joe's ability to sling the ball to the sidelines and protected him with a stout run game. For Joe, this meant that while he wasn't going to put up huge numbers, he also was unlikely to fail spectacularly and flame out. When you consider Cam in that light, he is a great first coordinator. He gets your QB into the game, protects him from early mistakes, while still putting your team in a position to win. I don't think it's a coincidence that Brees, Rivers, and Joe all looked pretty good under Cam, and then two of them looked pretty great after he left.

2. Just like training wheels eventually they stop being useful and become a hindrance, Cam's inability to up the complexity of his scheme means Joe isn't allowed to grow. He's stuck with training wheels long after he grows out of them. When he should be learning to pop wheelies and jump off a ramp, he's stuck on his little four wheeled Huffy. And then when the game situation demands he makes a huge jump, he can sometimes do it spite of his training wheels, but other times he comes up short.

Cam was an integral part of our getting to our first AFC championship game. He was a stabilizing force that kept our team in position to win as long as the D could play at a top level and keep us within a score or two. But now we need to move on. The training wheels need to come off. The bike needs to get bigger. And we need to be going a lot faster.

Hopefully we can do it. But don't be surprised if we fall down a couple times while Joe gets used to his new bike.

**lobachevsky** · 12-13-2012, 04:13 AM

Nice summation, Spammy. There's hope for you yet. (Slangin' Spammy Bot. Sounds like a Deadskins QB of note... :p)

I would only add that with a playoff berth so close at hand, it ain't like Joe has to hop on that bike in the middle of rush-hour traffic. He gets to pedal it up & down the back alley a few times while Uncle Jim is right there watching, with a box of bandaids just in case.