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  1. #31
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    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator



    Quote Originally Posted by lowrider View Post
    Yeah, I haven't been too hard on Cam either. It's easy to criticise sitting in your easy chair. All you have to do is look at the data provided in the OP and you can see it is not an easy job. At first I didn't like that they fired Cam with 3 games remaining in the regular season, but it has become apparent to me that there were some real differences going on between Cam and the players and JH. So I wish him well and I hope that people can be a little patient with Caldwell.
    I've been hard on him, but a lot of the criticism has often been nuts. A play isn't a bad call because it didn't work. It isn't a great call because it worked. Sometimes players make plays and bail a playcaller out even though he's made a boneheaded call. They can also make him look like a moron even though he's called the Annexation of Puerto Rico.




  2. #32

    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    put me on the don't feel bad list as well, that cat made more money than I can dream of, unemployment for Cam is way different than unemployment for the regular comon folk.
    Plus, the timing was perfectly timed. College coaches are/have lost their jobs, and I'm 100% sure Cameron will be a college HC before the end of the month.

    If Cam got fired after another playoff disaster, the college jobs would be filled already.
    After 5 years of early exits, the journey is finally complete.




  3. #33
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    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    I've been hard on him, but a lot of the criticism has often been nuts. A play isn't a bad call because it didn't work. It isn't a great call because it worked. Sometimes players make plays and bail a playcaller out even though he's made a boneheaded call. They can also make him look like a moron even though he's called the Annexation of Puerto Rico.
    I agree, but there is a reason why Cam got fired. If a coach gets fired midseason, there is something going on.




  4. #34
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    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    I agree, but there is a reason why Cam got fired. If a coach gets fired midseason, there is something going on.
    Undoubtedly. But I'm not sure Cam was fired for the same reasons most fans wanted Cam fired. It is pretty clear he was not fired because the Redskins game was the final straw in terms of calling a bad game. The team said as much, and actually he called a pretty decent game.

    The crux of Cam's firing, I think, was that he had lost the trust and respect of too many people around him.

    Whether or not his game plans and decisions were any good is irrelevant. That's because the players and coaches under him, the guys who he needed to execute those plans and decisions, had grown frustrated and had lost their desire to follow him.

    I hate to make analogies to war, but we've all seen movies where the lieutenant is a dick and the men under him refuse to follow him into battle.

    It doesn't have much to do with whether his men think he's giving the right orders, its more about a growing frustration and a general sense that they don't want to fight for him. It doesn't matter how clever a strategist he is at that point, he can do no right in the eyes of his men.

    I think that's the gist of what Harbaugh had to come to grips with with Cam. Harbaugh is naturally a team-spirit, attitude, faith kind of guy. Loss of spirit, attitude, faith would be Number One on his list of problems that need to be addressed. I don't think he would ever come to the conclusion that Cam didn't know how to call a game. He would however come to the conclusion that Cam was taking the soul of his team in the wrong direction.

    Of course I wasn't in any of the conversations and am only speculating, but I am speculating based on bits and pieces I've observed.

    In a lot of respects it's the exact same thing that happened to Brian Billick. By most accounts he was a great coach, but he sort of wore out his welcome with the players. As more and more pressure was put on him to fix the offense, he grew more and more self-reliant, and increasingly stopped listening to everyone around him. The communication broke down. And that's a big no-no for an owner like Bisciotti, we learned.

    I get the sense that Cam thought he had all the answers -- and personally, I think he may have had more answers than most people here believe -- but he became so poor at accepting input from his staff and from others on the offense, be they Flacco, Boldin, Rice, etc., that he lost their trust.

    Everyone--even after the firing, even Harbaugh--praised what Cam had taught them as a coach. They all said they think he has top-notch X's and O's abilities, and I think they all believe it.

    But this issue of listening to those around them was brewing for a long time...all the way back to when Al Saunders, Hue Jackson and Jim Zorn were bumping into Cam over at the facility (and all names, by the way, I wouldn't be surprised to hear come up as potential coordinators for the Ravens next season) and causing friction. With Flacco due to get a long term commitment, they couldn't afford that friction.

    Bisciotti wanted to see "Cam under fire." I think he got his answer. Cam under fire, much like Billick under fire, performed worse, not better. Under pressure they both became more insular and arrogant and obstinate. And that -- not ability -- became their downfalls.




  5. #35

    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    I think that's the gist of what Harbaugh had to come to grips with with Cam. Harbaugh is naturally a team-spirit, attitude, faith kind of guy. Loss of spirit, attitude, faith would be Number One on his list of problems that need to be addressed. I don't think he would ever come to the conclusion that Cam didn't know how to call a game. He would however come to the conclusion that Cam was taking the soul of his team in the wrong direction.
    Shas...I agree with most of your post, except the part above. I don't think Harbaugh had any intentions of firing him during the season. I suspect he would have jettisoned him in the off-season, but was going to ride it out with Cameron the remainder of this season.

    Then ownership intervened. That's a big problem now for Mr. Haubaugh. You said it yourself....

    It doesn't have much to do with whether his men think he's giving the right orders, its more about a growing frustration and a general sense that they don't want to fight for him. It doesn't matter how clever a strategist he is at that point, he can do no right in the eyes of his men.
    This often happens when ownership steps into the locker-room in the middle of the season.




  6. #36

    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    Whether or not his game plans and decisions were any good is irrelevant. That's because the players and coaches under him, the guys who he needed to execute those plans and decisions, had grown frustrated and had lost their desire to follow him.
    Shas, I don't see how you can divorce the two issues. If he had been more effective at game planning and decision making, he would have more than likely not lost the confidence of those around him. When you are making more correct calls and the results show on the field, it strengthens confidence, it doesn't erode it. If you go through long stretches of games and can't be effective and the players feel like they are doing what is being asked of them and aren't allowed to do the things that they think will work, then you get frustration. When you communicate what you as a player see is happening on the field, and then are ignored and the results are terrible, you get more frustrated and you lose confidence in what that person is asking you to do.

    As athlete's we know when we screw up vs. what is being asked of us is actually what is screwed up.




  7. #37
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    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    Quote Originally Posted by HKusp View Post
    Shas, I don't see how you can divorce the two issues. If he had been more effective at game planning and decision making, he would have more than likely not lost the confidence of those around him. When you are making more correct calls and the results show on the field, it strengthens confidence, it doesn't erode it. If you go through long stretches of games and can't be effective and the players feel like they are doing what is being asked of them and aren't allowed to do the things that they think will work, then you get frustration. When you communicate what you as a player see is happening on the field, and then are ignored and the results are terrible, you get more frustrated and you lose confidence in what that person is asking you to do.

    As athlete's we know when we screw up vs. what is being asked of us is actually what is screwed up.
    Here's why I think its irrelevant. Cam may have been right. Cam may indeed have correctly concluded what his receivers, offensive line and quarterback could and could not do. All the things the fans (and some players perhaps) wanted him to do maybe in fact wouldn't have helped. Maybe he really was getting the most out of the talent they have and maybe we overrate that talent? Maybe an offense that was top-ten in scoring was the best we could expect.

    Do I believe that? Not really. But it's possible. Maybe we'll see the same results under Jim Caldwell and it will continue to be difficult to figure out if Cam was as terrible as most think he was.

    But my point is this: it's not worth debating it. It really doesn't matter what we subjectively think of the job Cam was doing under the circumstances because the players stopped believing he was doing a good job.

    Cam thought he was putting together the best plan possible each week. Some players apparently disagreed. Who is to say which side was right? I know what a lot of fans believe, but that doesn't really settle the issue.

    More to the point, it really doesn't matter who is right because the relationship between coach and players (and colleagues, maybe) was broken, and it was more important for Harbaugh to step in (prompted by Bisciotti, or not -- and I'm not totally convinced that it was Bisciotti's decision) and sever the relationship, than it was for him to settle the argument.

    I'll use this analogy. A bad marriage. When a couple gets to the point where they are at each other's throats over issues in their marriage (money, romance, attitude, whatever), it really doesn't matter if she's right or he's right. The only thing that matters is admitting the marriage is over and moving on, regardless of which side is right.

    That's what I'm saying about Cam. It doesn't matter if he was right or wrong in how he was carrying out his duties. The bigger issue was that he had lost trust and he needed to go on that basis, above all else.




  8. #38

    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    I agree with you to an extent Shas, though I think if Cam had listened to and communicated better with the other coaches and the players, and showed more respect for their opinions, then the "marriage" could have been saved. Since those were the main reasons for the friction.

    Bottomline: Cam brought this entirely on himself. So, I can't feel sorry for him. And he's sure to find a new HC/OC job somewhere anyway.




  9. #39
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    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    I don't feel bad for him, although I do believe he was conservative by nature becasue that's what his boss (Harbaugh) wanted.




  10. #40

    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87 View Post
    At the end of the day, it seems like Offensive Play Callers eventually burn out and get too smart for themselves. The best ones, Sean Peyton, McCarthy, McDaniels, Andy Reid way back when, Mike Holmgren even further back always get promoted to HC
    Reid, like Caldwell, has never been a coordinator in the NFL. He made his name as a college O-line coach. In the NFL he coached O-line and TEs, then was QB coach in Green Bay under Holmgren. He (again like Caldwell) was hired straight from his QB coach position to be Philly's head guy.

    Last time Reid was a coordinator was 1983-5 at San Francisco State.




  11. #41

    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    Quote Originally Posted by PalladinInNC View Post
    one year he picked a TE with the Colt's No. 1 pick (can't remember the guy's name) who couldn't catch a cold but was a good blocker and then said this dude was the best TE in the draft. The Browns later on used their No. 1 on another Tight End by the name of Ozzie Newsome (Yeah, that's right, the Colts could have had Ozzie Newsome).
    Cleveland picked Ozzie Newsome in the 1978 draft, two picks before Baltimore picked Reese McCall. So the Colts couldn't really have had Ozzie, unless we traded up.

    McCall wasn't terrible. He played 8 years in the league. I don't remember him much, but he was probably a pretty good blocking TE. Probably the kind of player you don't need to spend a 1st on. And he was no Oz, of course.

    That was a pretty good draft for TEs. Todd Christensen went (to Dallas) at the end of rd 2; then Mickey Shuler went (to the Jets) early in the 3rd. 5th rounder Derrick Ramsey (Oakland) had a couple excellent seasons: led his team in receiving yds in 1981 and again in '84.

    Matt Cavanaugh went in the second round of that draft, to New England. ;-)


    EDIT: Looks like you guys caught this already.
    Last edited by JimZipCode; 12-15-2012 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Beaten to it!




  12. #42

    Re: Life as an Offensive Coordinator

    Little bit extra from La Canfora:

    Ravens owner Bisciotti a factor in Cameron's exit

    The timing of the firing of Ravens long-time offensive coordinator Cam Cameron shocked many players and coaches in Baltimore this week, sources said, but Cameron's job security had been an issue for years, with owner Steve Biscotti interested in other options in the past.

    Following the 2010 season, Bisciotti and others in upper management supported bringing in a new coordinator, but quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn and consultant Al Saunders were let go instead, giving Cameron his wish of remaining the lone voice heard by quarterback Joe Flacco.

    Coach John Harbaugh made the case for Cameron at that time and on other occasions, and the team's options have been limited due to Baltimore's perennially deep postseason runs. But with the offense inconsistent again this season and Flacco's production oscillating, Cameron was let go despite the Ravens (9-4) leading the AFC North.

    Flacco's relationship with Cameron had been frayed since the firing of Zorn, a former NFL quarterback whom Flacco was close with, with Flacco at the time speaking publicly about his disapproval of the move. Flacco was not consulted about this week's change, sources said, but it was well known throughout the organization that he and Cameron were not particularly close. Flacco has developed a closer relationship with quarterbacks coach Jim Caldwell, who takes over for Cameron despite having never called plays.

    Several players said privately they felt Cameron was rigid and not receptive to their feedback, and there is a sense among players that Caldwell might be more receptive to their input. The team might return to more of the up-tempo, no-huddle approach on display early in the season, a system with which Flacco has a comfort level.

    By making the move now, the Ravens -- who made no long-term commitment to Caldwell as coordinator -- are also better positioned to add a high-profile coordinator this offseason, even if they were to advance deep into the playoffs. Some in the organization believe Chargers coach Norv Turner, a virtual certainty to be let go at season's end, would be a great fit with Flacco. Turner comes from the Don Coryell tree (which also produced Cameron), with the quarterback not needing to learn a new system and language, etc. Turner will be highly coveted, however. Cowboys coach Jason Garrett, an accomplished offensive coordinator who was Biscotti's top choice to replace Brian Billick in 2008 (Garrett turned the job down), could be let go as well. Arizona's Ken Whisenhunt is highly thought of as well, and could be let go, while Hue Jackson and Chris Palmer could be lower-profile options.

    Bisciotti badly wants to win a Super Bowl, and league sources expect the Ravens to be aggressive in seeking a replacement for Cameron. Flacco's rookie contract expires this season, and he will be franchised if a long-term deal can't be reached, sources said. Getting Flacco, a former first-round pick, to perform at an elite level is paramount if the organization -- which has at least one playoff victory each of Flacco and Harbaugh's four seasons together -- wishes to advance past the AFC Championship Game.

    Baltimore is on the cusp of a fifth straight playoff appearance under Harbaugh. But with its defense aging, ailing and slipping in its production, the need for a better offensive output is acute, particularly away from home, where Flacco and his unit have been prone to deep funks.




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