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  1. #16
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.



    Every unit on the team has been almost tailor made for Joe. The only one I'll point to in the last few years is the OL.

    2008 - Gaither - Grubbs - Brown - Chester - Willie Anderson
    2009 - Gaither - Grubbs - Birk - Chester - Oher
    2010 - Oher - Grubbs - Birk - Chester - Yanda
    2011 - McKinnie - Grubbs - Birk - Yanda - Oher
    2012 - Oher - CF (Harewood/Williams/Reid) - Birk - Yanda - KO

    So, let's just say that 2008 and 2009 were Joe's "golden" years. He was improving, he was progressing. In 2010, Oher is moved to LT, which was admittedly a mistake then. Yanda was a good OL, but RT was not his best position. 2011, Oher back to RT, McKinnie in at LT. McKinnie had some good games, but overall just a little better than Oher. Grubbs was injured for 6-7 games, leading to Gurode at LG. Birk has been getting worse....

    2012 - Oher back to LT, which we all can probably agree isn't working. LG has been an absolute disaster. Grubbs was playing at PB alternate level. What remains is a total CF. Harewood had a shot and failed, Bobbie Williams had a shot and failed. Jah Reid is maybe okay? Birk continuing to regress. Rookie at RT has been good at times, bad at others.

    I remember the OL play was rough in 2010, which was what led to Matsko's firing and Moeller's "promotion". Can anyone argue it's gotten better since then? I don't think it has. Moeller probably can't go midseason, but I don't think he should be back next year. Also, Oher needs to GTFO of LT! Let McKinnie ride out the year, then you HAVE to go back to the drawing board! He's not getting it done. LG, I don't even know. Maybe Oher? Maybe ride with Reid? Birk is likely gone after this year, but we'll have some rough times with Gradkowski too. Yanda should hopefully be back full go next year, and I hope KO continues to improve.

    The OL play isn't all the answer, but I think that is the one spot where the moves they've made have been okay at best, and many have not panned out.
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  2. #17
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    where this team started fucking up with building around flacco was letting jason brown walk, when you draft your franchise QB you build a foundation for him, you want him protected, sure brown wanted center money but his play HERE deserved it. We had that doundation in JG, GRUBBS,BROWN, YANDA AND OHER JG didn't work outr so they should have drafted true LT. This Oline has been a revolving door for so many years, just ask the colts of the early to mid 2000s what consistency on the Oline means, ask Denver too. You need to protect your franchise QB.




  3. #18
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    Which could be why they cut ties with Cameron to see once for all what Joe can do without him. If Joe plays lights out the rest of the season and leads us to the superbowl then Joe has the leverage in contract negotiations.
    Totally agree. If that scenario plays out, the the Ravens will pay Flacco what he wants. However, I am doubtful that the Ravens will make it past the Divisional round of the playoffs this year.




  4. #19

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    The talent is there. This isn't the 2000 offense. Rice is a great player. The Ravens are 3 deep at receiver. They have 2 effective tight ends. They have the best fullback in the NFL. The offensive line is below average but it's not horrible. There is a lot of talent for Joe to work with. He has more than any QB in Ravens history ever had before.
    But the best the Ravens ever had doesn't equate to on par with other championship teams in the NFL though. That's like saying they just aren't as crappy as they used to be.

    I agree they have been building around Joe at the outside positions, though Rice came in with Joe so that isn't an acquisition they got just for him. Adding Torrey Smith and Pitta/Dickson was great. But we let our OL suffer letting Grubbs walk, moving Oher back to LT, and continuing to have a 35+ year old center start with no real backup plan or player to groom for that spot. That to me isn't building around Joe.

    And the bigger problem now is they have to go back to drafting the defense because that unit is suffering BADLY. So the OL is going to get passed over again this coming season.




  5. #20

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    You know honestly, I think our receiving corp is bit overrated by many. Boldin is slow and has issues separating. But at least he is polished in his route running and Joe trusts him, even if the window is really tight. Torrey has a lot of potential, but he is average at best right now with running routes (why a talent like that is a 2nd round pick). Joe and Torrey can't seem to get on the same page recently on the deep ball, b/c Torrey is developing a bad habit of jumping too early instead of just decelerating. Sure Joe should not underthrow him as much, but a QB needs a WR to be consistent with their running to develop chemistry. Torrey will improve, no doubt, but he is inconsistent right now. And Jones.. same thing... great straight line speed... but very little in the department of route running skill. Doss was rendered pretty much useless in Cam's offense b/c it was all go deep and Boldin being the already occasional short route option in the Cam offense. They still lack a true #1 like Megatron, Calvin, Wayne, Fitz, AJ.... Our boy Matty Ice has two in White & Jones. Can Torrey develop into that true #1??? I hope. Hey who knows how things really are? We were stuck in the dark ages with Cam, so maybe our receivers truly are better than their performance in Cam's system.




  6. #21
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    You know honestly, I think our receiving corp is bit overrated by many. Boldin is slow and has issues separating. But at least he is polished in his route running and Joe trusts him, even if the window is really tight. Torrey has a lot of potential, but he is average at best right now with running routes (why a talent like that is a 2nd round pick). Joe and Torrey can't seem to get on the same page recently on the deep ball, b/c Torrey is developing a bad habit of jumping too early instead of just decelerating. Sure Joe should not underthrow him as much, but a QB needs a WR to be consistent with their running to develop chemistry. Torrey will improve, no doubt, but he is inconsistent right now. And Jones.. same thing... great straight line speed... but very little in the department of route running skill. Doss was rendered pretty much useless in Cam's offense b/c it was all go deep and Boldin being the already occasional short route option in the Cam offense. They still lack a true #1 like Megatron, Calvin, Wayne, Fitz, AJ.... Our boy Matty Ice has two in White & Jones. Can Torrey develop into that true #1??? I hope. Hey who knows how things really are? We were stuck in the dark ages with Cam, so maybe our receivers truly are better than their performance in Cam's system.
    they are not overrated they were under utilize, boldin didn't leave AZ where he put up all those numbers just to forget how to run routes and get separation. Has he slowed? yes but he is still dangerous. I'm hoping Caldwell can finish out the season with some positive results under the same system just better plays and play calling. then the system needs to go after that.




  7. #22
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    That's definitely an issue. In the past this team has always been able to pay it's top defensive talent and go cheap on the QB spot. Even when they did pay up for a second contract, McNair and Grbac, it didn't last long. Now they have to tie up huge money into somewhere they never have before. It's going to mean going cheap somewhere else. Ozzie has a habit of following Belechick. The Patriots really got cheap on defense the past couple of years and it hasn't hurt them. I could see Ozzie having to do the same thing. Even if Flacco signs for what the Ravens offered him last year he's still going to make them reevaluate the cap structure of this team.
    The big difference there is that Belechick has Brady. Flacco may make similar money as Brady if gets the contract he wants, but he isn't as good as Brady. Would the Ravens really be that worse off if they were able to trade Flacco for a couple of high draft picks, provided they could get a good young QB like Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson in the draft?




  8. #23

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post

    And the bigger problem now is they have to go back to drafting the defense because that unit is suffering BADLY. So the OL is going to get passed over again this coming season.
    They have drafted defense recently.... Its just Oz and Eric have flopped. Kindle, Cody are busts. Jimmy Smith is disappointing so far. (I used to say Kruger too is disappointing, but he is finally ballin...Took a little while)




  9. #24
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    When you have Boldin running 9 routes, yes he looks overrated. His best work is in the middle of the field where he can punish DB's trying to tackle him.




  10. #25

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Flacco thinks that he is a better QB than he really is. I am really beginning to think that the Ravens will franchise Flacco, but that he won't play next season under the franchise tag. The Ravens will either sign him to a reasonable contract (~6 years, $72 million) by the time the draft comes around, or they will trade him.
    If Lee Evans holds onto that ball, we're not having this conversation. So this notion that Joe Flacco cannot carry the team in and through the playoffs isn't completely true. That's my issue with all this talk that Joe isn't this, or isn't that. He was good enough to travel to Foxboro and put the ball in the chest of a receiver in the endzone to win the game.




  11. #26
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    If Lee Evans holds onto that ball, we're not having this conversation. So this notion that Joe Flacco cannot carry the team in and through the playoffs isn't completely true. That's my issue with all this talk that Joe isn't this, or isn't that. He was good enough to travel to Foxboro and put the ball in the chest of a receiver in the endzone to win the game.
    Coupled with that game winning drive in Pittsburgh last year, I am dumbfounded people even suggest Joe can't get it done. Get him another second in the pocket, toss in some slants and screens, we have a deadly QB.




  12. #27

    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    The big difference there is that Belechick has Brady. Flacco may make similar money as Brady if gets the contract he wants, but he isn't as good as Brady. Would the Ravens really be that worse off if they were able to trade Flacco for a couple of high draft picks, provided they could get a good young QB like Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson in the draft?
    Dirt1... Have you've seen Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson play? I like Tyler a little better but neither is remotely capable of what RG3 and Luck can do or even Wilson. Do you want Gabbert or Ponder as our QB? Maybe I'd be wrong with them, but I'd much rather try to refine Flacco in a real offense and see what happens.




  13. #28
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    What do you people expect?

    When were we ever in position to get Flacco a guy like Calvin Johnson? Since Flacco has been here, we have been picking past 20 in every draft, and have had very limited cap space in every year because of the money we are paying a heap of stars we have on this roster.

    If you ask me, Flacco has had it far from rough compared to a lot of other QB's who have been drafted in the first rounds. He has an all pro RB that has bailed him out of many games in the past, as well as relying on a top 5 defense every year up to this year. He did have Todd Heap who was a very good tight end even in 08 09 and 2010, and had D Mason, as well as Boldin since 2010 (both former pro bowl players). The main issue is the Oline, which is the one thing our FO has not done a good job of retaining. I think this offseason should be spent rebuilding the Oline, and I have said this in literally every draft/offseason thread.

    The Oline is IMO the only hole on this offense. I guess we could have a guy like Calvin Johnson at WR, but do you realize how hard it is to get guys like that?




  14. #29
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Wow, LBeast and I agree! Alert the media!




  15. #30
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    Re: The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    The Oline is IMO the only hole on this offense. I guess we could have a guy like Calvin Johnson at WR, but do you realize how hard it is to get guys like that?
    As hard as getting the QBs that everyone always says Joe needs to be better than...
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




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