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  1. #205

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?



    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Why was Cameron even re-hired at the start of THIS season?
    Simple, John Harbaugh.




  2. #206
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Cockeysville, MD
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    3,989

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Simple, John Harbaugh.
    Agreed. And now he is being held accountable for that albatross. Steve B. is a very successful businessman who did not get to where he is by being complacent and by demanding results. Harbaugh's feet being held to the fire for not winning a SB goes right along with that M.O. Seems cruel, but that's the way it is.




  3. #207

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Agreed. And now he is being held accountable for that albatross. Steve B. is a very successful businessman who did not get to where he is by being complacent and by demanding results. Harbaugh's feet being held to the fire for not winning a SB goes right along with that M.O. Seems cruel, but that's the way it is.
    Exactly. I mean we can laud records and playoff appearances, but they don't equate into trophies. I endured a rack of shit from everyone because I thought Billick should still be head coach. All I heard was he lost the locker room, the team is divided. Tell me, what was the big team meeting about after the Texans whipped the Raven's ass? A team divided in SOME way. Then, we have a coordinator, much like Rex Ryan in that, it was 'his' team, the defense, very much the way Cam had his offense, only difference was, he didn't have the players behind him. But the undercurrent of discontent mirrors the same situation, coupled with two shameful losses and an year long inconstancy on offense with the well documented displeasure the offensive players had with Cam, especially the free agent to be starting quarterback, the owner had to have another 'gut' feeling.




  4. #208

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Simple, John Harbaugh.
    No doubt. But why wasn't Harbaugh's vote vetoed before the start of the season? Doesn't the owner have to take some responsibility for allowing it to even happen in the first place, given all the evidence that it could only end badly?
    Last edited by RavensRule21215; 12-14-2012 at 03:14 PM.




  5. #209
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Where Ravens Fans Roam Free
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    1,918

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    No doubt. But why wasn't Harbaugh's vote vetoed before the start of the season? Doesn't the owner have to take some responsibility for allowing to even happen in the first place, given all the evidence that it could only end badly?
    Or how about Ozzie over-ruling Harbaugh? I think we give Ozzie way to big of a pass on stuff like this. He is the GM, not just the guy in charge of the draft and player acquisition. If you don't want an owner who meddles regularly, then you need to have a FO that handles things on a proactive basis. I also think Dick Cass plays a very big role behind the scenes.




  6. #210

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    No doubt. But why wasn't Harbaugh's vote vetoed before the start of the season? Doesn't the owner have to take some responsibility for allowing to even happen in the first place, given all the evidence that it could only end badly?
    My belief is that, as stated, we were a catch away from the Super Bowl. That coupled with the promise the Raven's were going to unleash Flacco and the offense. After all, John has won a lot of games and made the playoffs much like everyone touts when I doubt him. That promise was enough to give it one more try in the owners eyes I am sure.




  7. #211

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    It all comes down to Harbaugh lobbying to keep Cam two years in a row. Taking the entire offseason to change the offense, have it work then yank the cord on it. Then when they want to go back to it, Cam REFUSED. Cam would not take orders from Harbs, he got fired. The offense reverted back to the exact same offense as the last year 2 years with a whole offseason put into changing it. Not even going to go into the protection packages that were asked to be changed. Cameron thought he "owned" the offense. It's customary not to fire a coach midway or at any time during a season because for 2 reasons, It makes it more difficult to hire good coaches in the future, and destroys the reputation of the person fired. Harbs is on the hot seat because he couldn't control HIS coaches which has lost some of his respect with the players.




  8. #212

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    @ Captain and Dirt1

    I agree with both of your posts.




  9. #213
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Clayton,NC
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    7,358

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    This is a major problem with Harbaugh. Considering he is not an X's and O's guy and his role is primarily limited to motivation and executive management, the only things he needs to get right on game day are challenges, clock management, and overall coordination. He is horrible at all 3 of those things and has never improved.

    It's puzzling how poor Harbaugh's feel for the game of football is overall. It sounds like I'm being very critical of him, and I don't mean to be--he does a lot of things within his responsibility well. But he's got to show some improvement in these areas very quickly.
    HE did not improve yesterday. The poor challenge on Torrey's non-catch and the non-timeout before Joe's pick.

    I am not saying Joe would not have thrown a pick even if a Timeout was called, but even my sister-in-law (a die-hard Ravens fan, but not a extremely knowledgeable fan, better than average though) was shouting "call a time out, call a timeout!!!"
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  10. Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    It's Now Both
    Last edited by PerpetuallyBored74; 12-17-2012 at 12:17 PM.




  11. #215

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    I had no problem with the lack of timeout to end the first half (up until the disasterous play). There was plenty of time and we definitely wanted to leave as little time as possible on the clock to prevent a Manning FG response. But we were acting like we were in a rush, which is inexplicable and ultimately costly. It was a terrible effort by someone, and I guess I have to include Harbaugh there.

    The challenge was of course also blatantly stupid. Was just giving away a 2nd half timeout. And the funny thing is he didn't challenge a long first half incompletion on us that looked clearly closer than the one he challenged (for the record I think the first half challenge would have lost as well, but it at least would have been a defensible decision).

    I can't give Harbaugh high marks for yesterday at all. Motivation was down, and the few in-game decisions were either standard (required no special skill) or mistakes.




  12. #216

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I had no problem with the lack of timeout to end the first half (up until the disasterous play). There was plenty of time and we definitely wanted to leave as little time as possible on the clock to prevent a Manning FG response. But we were acting like we were in a rush, which is inexplicable and ultimately costly. It was a terrible effort by someone, and I guess I have to include Harbaugh there.

    The challenge was of course also blatantly stupid. Was just giving away a 2nd half timeout. And the funny thing is he didn't challenge a long first half incompletion on us that looked clearly closer than the one he challenged (for the record I think the first half challenge would have lost as well, but it at least would have been a defensible decision).

    I can't give Harbaugh high marks for yesterday at all. Motivation was down, and the few in-game decisions were either standard (required no special skill) or mistakes.
    This.

    I also questioned not going for 2 when down 34-16 early in the 4th quarter. My buddy said, "The game is over, it doesn't matter". OK..I agree...holding the Broncos scoreless and in the process scoring 2 TDs and 2 successful conversions was not likely.

    But then somebody explain why the hell Harbaugh is then kicking on-side kicks, calling time-outs with 3 minutes to go...having Flacco drop back to pass on the last drive.

    Clearly, this was the WORST coaching performance by Harbaugh. He was awful.




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