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  1. #193

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?



    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    And if I were arguing that he never fucks up and has NEVER cost us a game by doing so, pointing out that decision would be a major coup. But that is not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that in the NFL, talent is relatively evenly dispersed (as the game's parity would suggest, and the salary cap mandates) and therefor, a team that consistently outperforms the competition (which we do) is doing so because it is being well coached. Coaching staffs are the constant in the NFL. They are there for much longer than the bulk of the roster. Therefor, citing a coach's record is one of the only ways to demonstrate his value relative to his peers. Harb's record is among the best, which is why I consider him among the best. And while he obviously is not perfect, it is foolish to claim that he's literally horrible at literally everything he is supposed to do on game day which was exactly what the poster I responded to claimed.
    I am not saying Harbaugh is a horrible gameday coach by pointing out this decision, but that is mainly because many many (most) other coaches are just as stupid, so everything is relative.

    But there are "mistakes" and then there are bad decisions that point to an overall lack of ability to weigh risks and rewards. In other words, some single mistakes are bad enough to allow us to conclude some things about the decision-maker. Constantly choosing the 40 side of 60/40 decisions is one thing. Choosing, even a single time, the 2 side in a 98/2 scenario tells us something else. The latter is much more damning, imo.

    All that said, I think Harbaugh's non-gameday "coaching"/motivating is clearly admirable. His gameday "coaching" needs a lot to be desired, but again, that is the case for most coaches, including some with rings and great winning percentages.

    And to repeat, he isn't in the same zip code as a hot seat, atm.




  2. #194
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    The next two games are bad match-up for the Ravens. Not that they couldn't win one or both of them, but the match-ups are not in their favor. The last game of the season is a road game at Cincy. The Ravens have struggled on the road this year. If they somehow finish the season losing their last five straight games (a scenario that is not that far fetched), I think Harbaugh is toast even if they still manage to back into the playoffs.
    Wow. You really think so? I don't know if he's toast because of this season, no matter what happens.




  3. #195
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    The next two games are bad match-up for the Ravens. Not that they couldn't win one or both of them, but the match-ups are not in their favor. The last game of the season is a road game at Cincy. The Ravens have struggled on the road this year. If they somehow finish the season losing their last five straight games (a scenario that is not that far fetched), I think Harbaugh is toast even if they still manage to back into the playoffs.
    While I'm not going to rule out anything, (I was certain that Cam was safe until the day after the season ended) I will say that I think Harbs has earned a major mulligan this season due to the huge rash of major injuries that he could in no way prevent and his (presumptive) AFC North Title defense.

    If we do back in to the playoffs or even lose from here on out, Bisciotti may chose to fire Harbs but I would disagree with the decision. To me, firing Cam was a calculated choice made in light of our playoff situation and team need. Firing Harbs after successfully capturing the AFC North in back to back years would be an emotional choice made out of frustration.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  4. #196
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    While I'm not going to rule out anything, (I was certain that Cam was safe until the day after the season ended) I will say that I think Harbs has earned a major mulligan this season due to the huge rash of major injuries that he could in no way prevent and his (presumptive) AFC North Title defense.

    If we do back in to the playoffs or even lose from here on out, Bisciotti may chose to fire Harbs but I would disagree with the decision. To me, firing Cam was a calculated choice made in light of our playoff situation and team need. Firing Harbs after successfully capturing the AFC North in back to back years would be an emotional choice made out of frustration.
    The reason I think that Bisciotti will fire Harbaugh if the Ravens lose out has everything to do with Flacco's contract. In Tony Lombardi's article, Bisciotti said that Flacco was the reason why the Ravens window has remained open for the past 4-5 years. He didn't mention Harbaugh. If you were to ask Robert Kraft the same question, he would likely say Brady and Belichick. If Bisciotti pays Flacco what he wants, then the Ravens better get used to having a much weaker defense than they have become accustomed to having, due to salary cap constraints. Scoring 24 points in a game has been more than enough historically for the Ravens to win, because their defense was so good. With an average/poor defense, the offense needs to be able to put up 30+ points per game on a regular basis in order to win. That is why I don't think Harbaugh will get a mulligan for the injuries on defense this year, and why he might want a more offensive minded HC.




  5. #197
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    From a poster on orioleshangout

    Just a little bit more on this:

    Steve B. did a lot of homework on this move before coming to Harbaugh. He conferred with a few around the league and they felt that Cameron's game plans were the problem

    He is really upset at Harbaugh. He is somewhat shocked that he let Cameron run unchecked, cause a locker room division, create animosity with their QB and get in the way of a deal. He let Harbaugh know that he fired a guy for the same.

    He didn't let Ozzie off the hook either. Made it known to him that he should better have his finger on the pulse instead of shoveling blame. He told Ozzie that it shouldn't get to a point where the owner has to step in on a situation like this.




  6. #198
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Nothing that poster is providing is substantiated anywhere. Doesn't make it false, but where I come from extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's far more likely that that poster is simply making things up for attention as nothing he's saying is ever going to be confirmed or denied.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  7. #199
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Nothing that poster is providing is substantiated anywhere. Doesn't make it false, but where I come from extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's far more likely that that poster is simply making things up for attention as nothing he's saying is ever going to be confirmed or denied.
    The poster has been on the point before. Most recently with the Cameron firing, but I agree to take it with a large grain of salt.




  8. #200
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    From a poster on orioleshangout
    I don't know how credible that source is, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Cam was the problem, but Harbaugh and Ozzie were enablers due to their inaction. Ozzie is the GM, not just the player-personnel guy. It is totally understandable for Bisciotti to expect him to deal with situations like this before they get out of hand.




  9. #201

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Nothing that poster is providing is substantiated anywhere. Doesn't make it false, but where I come from extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's far more likely that that poster is simply making things up for attention as nothing he's saying is ever going to be confirmed or denied.
    I don't disagree with you and I appreciate your sentiment (which I share,) but the source is not making things up for attention and numerous things he's said in the past have come to fruition. Not everything, but a lot of things.

    When you hear guys like Aaron Wilson, Adam Schefter, etc. say "sources are telling me..." it becomes more credible because they have the cachet of name recognition. But sometimes their "sources" are friend-of-a-friend-of-a... like this guy. I'll leave it at that.

    I think I tend to agree that Harbaugh's seat isn't "hot" as in "on fire." But it's probably warmed up more than anybody foresaw prior to the season. A lot is riding on the rest of this season.




  10. #202

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    3 weeks ago, I would've said someone is crazy for suggesting that Harbaugh could get fired. After what happened in the past 3 weeks, I wouldn't be surprised now if Harbaugh got fired. I get the impression that Harbaugh really rubbed Bisciotti the wrong way by sticking with Cameron way too long.
    This is correct as I've heard. The problem(s) was that a new offense was built around Joe, the uptempo offense or whatever you want to call it. It was successful and Cam locked it away. Much time and the hirings of Caldwell and signing of Jones was to help with that.

    Then, what got Biscuits ire, was the fact Harbaugh wanted to go back to it and also change protection packages the past 4 games. 2 games were lost basically because of poor protection packages WITH LEADS.
    The part that got Biscuit MOST UPSET was Harbaugh the HEAD COACH had NO PULL OVER CAMERON and Cameron did what he pleased. Cameron had the biggest ego in the building and wouldn't even listen to his head coach for some reason. Harbaugh had no control over Cameron. Thier was a chain of command that was not followed.




  11. #203

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    I've never really been a huge Harbs fan. I've always though that he has never had the coaching acumen to aid in either the OC's or DC's coordination of their side of the ball (he is very active with ST b/c that is his background). I've always blamed him for not interceding with Cam. I guess that was an unreasonable expectation considering how much of a control freak Cam is. Still bottomline, Harbs is in control, and he let it get that bad with Cam by not removing him earlier. Harbs has other faults too (questionable time management, too snarky), but ultimately I do not think he should be dismissed.

    I dont think it would be the best overall decision for the Ravens franchise to remove a coach who is likely to make the playoffs 5 years in row. Great coaches typically have multiple suitors. How will they rationalize the Ravens organization canning John after 5 playoff seasons. You don't think that would influence their decisions. I don't want the Ravens organization to get a bad rap that they dont stick by their coaches when they experience some tough times. John deserves a shot to learn from his mistakes and become a better coach from those lessons.




  12. #204

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    I don't know how credible that source is, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Cam was the problem, but Harbaugh and Ozzie were enablers due to their inaction. Ozzie is the GM, not just the player-personnel guy. It is totally understandable for Bisciotti to expect him to deal with situations like this before they get out of hand.
    But this isn't something new that just cropped up. Cameron has been on the hot seat for questionable calls AND having a strained relationship with his own QB for 2 years. That's the thing that just doesn't quite jive here. Yeah...if this just happened this season it might be different. But didn't the owner know of this issue for years now? Analysts have been talking about Cameron's poor play calling and schemes AND the strained relationship with his QB for at least 2 years running. So why wasn't it dealt with before 3 games before the end of the season? Why was Cameron even re-hired at the start of THIS season?




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