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  1. #196
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?



    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    While I'm not going to rule out anything, (I was certain that Cam was safe until the day after the season ended) I will say that I think Harbs has earned a major mulligan this season due to the huge rash of major injuries that he could in no way prevent and his (presumptive) AFC North Title defense.

    If we do back in to the playoffs or even lose from here on out, Bisciotti may chose to fire Harbs but I would disagree with the decision. To me, firing Cam was a calculated choice made in light of our playoff situation and team need. Firing Harbs after successfully capturing the AFC North in back to back years would be an emotional choice made out of frustration.
    The reason I think that Bisciotti will fire Harbaugh if the Ravens lose out has everything to do with Flacco's contract. In Tony Lombardi's article, Bisciotti said that Flacco was the reason why the Ravens window has remained open for the past 4-5 years. He didn't mention Harbaugh. If you were to ask Robert Kraft the same question, he would likely say Brady and Belichick. If Bisciotti pays Flacco what he wants, then the Ravens better get used to having a much weaker defense than they have become accustomed to having, due to salary cap constraints. Scoring 24 points in a game has been more than enough historically for the Ravens to win, because their defense was so good. With an average/poor defense, the offense needs to be able to put up 30+ points per game on a regular basis in order to win. That is why I don't think Harbaugh will get a mulligan for the injuries on defense this year, and why he might want a more offensive minded HC.




  2. #197
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    From a poster on orioleshangout

    Just a little bit more on this:

    Steve B. did a lot of homework on this move before coming to Harbaugh. He conferred with a few around the league and they felt that Cameron's game plans were the problem

    He is really upset at Harbaugh. He is somewhat shocked that he let Cameron run unchecked, cause a locker room division, create animosity with their QB and get in the way of a deal. He let Harbaugh know that he fired a guy for the same.

    He didn't let Ozzie off the hook either. Made it known to him that he should better have his finger on the pulse instead of shoveling blame. He told Ozzie that it shouldn't get to a point where the owner has to step in on a situation like this.




  3. #198
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Nothing that poster is providing is substantiated anywhere. Doesn't make it false, but where I come from extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's far more likely that that poster is simply making things up for attention as nothing he's saying is ever going to be confirmed or denied.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  4. #199
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Nothing that poster is providing is substantiated anywhere. Doesn't make it false, but where I come from extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's far more likely that that poster is simply making things up for attention as nothing he's saying is ever going to be confirmed or denied.
    The poster has been on the point before. Most recently with the Cameron firing, but I agree to take it with a large grain of salt.




  5. #200
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    From a poster on orioleshangout
    I don't know how credible that source is, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Cam was the problem, but Harbaugh and Ozzie were enablers due to their inaction. Ozzie is the GM, not just the player-personnel guy. It is totally understandable for Bisciotti to expect him to deal with situations like this before they get out of hand.




  6. #201

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Nothing that poster is providing is substantiated anywhere. Doesn't make it false, but where I come from extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's far more likely that that poster is simply making things up for attention as nothing he's saying is ever going to be confirmed or denied.
    I don't disagree with you and I appreciate your sentiment (which I share,) but the source is not making things up for attention and numerous things he's said in the past have come to fruition. Not everything, but a lot of things.

    When you hear guys like Aaron Wilson, Adam Schefter, etc. say "sources are telling me..." it becomes more credible because they have the cachet of name recognition. But sometimes their "sources" are friend-of-a-friend-of-a... like this guy. I'll leave it at that.

    I think I tend to agree that Harbaugh's seat isn't "hot" as in "on fire." But it's probably warmed up more than anybody foresaw prior to the season. A lot is riding on the rest of this season.




  7. #202

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    3 weeks ago, I would've said someone is crazy for suggesting that Harbaugh could get fired. After what happened in the past 3 weeks, I wouldn't be surprised now if Harbaugh got fired. I get the impression that Harbaugh really rubbed Bisciotti the wrong way by sticking with Cameron way too long.
    This is correct as I've heard. The problem(s) was that a new offense was built around Joe, the uptempo offense or whatever you want to call it. It was successful and Cam locked it away. Much time and the hirings of Caldwell and signing of Jones was to help with that.

    Then, what got Biscuits ire, was the fact Harbaugh wanted to go back to it and also change protection packages the past 4 games. 2 games were lost basically because of poor protection packages WITH LEADS.
    The part that got Biscuit MOST UPSET was Harbaugh the HEAD COACH had NO PULL OVER CAMERON and Cameron did what he pleased. Cameron had the biggest ego in the building and wouldn't even listen to his head coach for some reason. Harbaugh had no control over Cameron. Thier was a chain of command that was not followed.




  8. #203

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    I've never really been a huge Harbs fan. I've always though that he has never had the coaching acumen to aid in either the OC's or DC's coordination of their side of the ball (he is very active with ST b/c that is his background). I've always blamed him for not interceding with Cam. I guess that was an unreasonable expectation considering how much of a control freak Cam is. Still bottomline, Harbs is in control, and he let it get that bad with Cam by not removing him earlier. Harbs has other faults too (questionable time management, too snarky), but ultimately I do not think he should be dismissed.

    I dont think it would be the best overall decision for the Ravens franchise to remove a coach who is likely to make the playoffs 5 years in row. Great coaches typically have multiple suitors. How will they rationalize the Ravens organization canning John after 5 playoff seasons. You don't think that would influence their decisions. I don't want the Ravens organization to get a bad rap that they dont stick by their coaches when they experience some tough times. John deserves a shot to learn from his mistakes and become a better coach from those lessons.




  9. #204

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    I don't know how credible that source is, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Cam was the problem, but Harbaugh and Ozzie were enablers due to their inaction. Ozzie is the GM, not just the player-personnel guy. It is totally understandable for Bisciotti to expect him to deal with situations like this before they get out of hand.
    But this isn't something new that just cropped up. Cameron has been on the hot seat for questionable calls AND having a strained relationship with his own QB for 2 years. That's the thing that just doesn't quite jive here. Yeah...if this just happened this season it might be different. But didn't the owner know of this issue for years now? Analysts have been talking about Cameron's poor play calling and schemes AND the strained relationship with his QB for at least 2 years running. So why wasn't it dealt with before 3 games before the end of the season? Why was Cameron even re-hired at the start of THIS season?




  10. #205
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Why was Cameron even re-hired at the start of THIS season?
    Simple, John Harbaugh.




  11. #206
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Simple, John Harbaugh.
    Agreed. And now he is being held accountable for that albatross. Steve B. is a very successful businessman who did not get to where he is by being complacent and by demanding results. Harbaugh's feet being held to the fire for not winning a SB goes right along with that M.O. Seems cruel, but that's the way it is.




  12. #207
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Agreed. And now he is being held accountable for that albatross. Steve B. is a very successful businessman who did not get to where he is by being complacent and by demanding results. Harbaugh's feet being held to the fire for not winning a SB goes right along with that M.O. Seems cruel, but that's the way it is.
    Exactly. I mean we can laud records and playoff appearances, but they don't equate into trophies. I endured a rack of shit from everyone because I thought Billick should still be head coach. All I heard was he lost the locker room, the team is divided. Tell me, what was the big team meeting about after the Texans whipped the Raven's ass? A team divided in SOME way. Then, we have a coordinator, much like Rex Ryan in that, it was 'his' team, the defense, very much the way Cam had his offense, only difference was, he didn't have the players behind him. But the undercurrent of discontent mirrors the same situation, coupled with two shameful losses and an year long inconstancy on offense with the well documented displeasure the offensive players had with Cam, especially the free agent to be starting quarterback, the owner had to have another 'gut' feeling.




  13. #208

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Simple, John Harbaugh.
    No doubt. But why wasn't Harbaugh's vote vetoed before the start of the season? Doesn't the owner have to take some responsibility for allowing it to even happen in the first place, given all the evidence that it could only end badly?
    Last edited by RavensRule21215; 12-14-2012 at 04:14 PM.




  14. #209
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    No doubt. But why wasn't Harbaugh's vote vetoed before the start of the season? Doesn't the owner have to take some responsibility for allowing to even happen in the first place, given all the evidence that it could only end badly?
    Or how about Ozzie over-ruling Harbaugh? I think we give Ozzie way to big of a pass on stuff like this. He is the GM, not just the guy in charge of the draft and player acquisition. If you don't want an owner who meddles regularly, then you need to have a FO that handles things on a proactive basis. I also think Dick Cass plays a very big role behind the scenes.




  15. #210
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    No doubt. But why wasn't Harbaugh's vote vetoed before the start of the season? Doesn't the owner have to take some responsibility for allowing to even happen in the first place, given all the evidence that it could only end badly?
    My belief is that, as stated, we were a catch away from the Super Bowl. That coupled with the promise the Raven's were going to unleash Flacco and the offense. After all, John has won a lot of games and made the playoffs much like everyone touts when I doubt him. That promise was enough to give it one more try in the owners eyes I am sure.




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