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  1. #136
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    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaug?



    IMHO Harbaugh isn't on the hot seat--yet. I think there is a general philosophical clash between him & Bisciotti. Harbaugh avoids risk until he has no choice but to embrace it--he doesn't mind playing predictably or timidly so long as it gets the team to the postseason, where anything can happen. Bisciotti would rather risk bad decisions & mistakes by his difference-maker QB than have him chained to an unimaginative low-risk, tiptoe-into-the-playoffs system.

    What remains to be seen is if Harbaugh can live with & coach under the increased risk & uncertainty that comes with a less tightly controlled offense. Can he resist the temptation to bolt the training wheels back on after Flacco has a bad outing? It's not clear he can't--I have personally seen situations where a completely rigid superior suddenly showed surprising flexibility--but if he can't, the guy who canned Brian Billick right after giving him an extension isn't going to be shy about letting him go.




  2. #137
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by GirlsKickButt View Post
    But hell, what do I know?
    So what is the point of posting if you are going to say both yes and no?




  3. #138
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    So what is the point of posting if you are going to say both yes and no?

    This is a discussion, no? Just throwing my 2 cents (and a few theories) out there. The truth is none of us are privy to what really is going on at the Castle and all of this is just pure speculation. That being said, it is sure a good discussion.




  4. #139
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    If I am Bisciotti, I am also a little annoyed at Ozzie. Why does this have to come from the owner? Why didn't the GM push harder for this move earlier?




  5. #140

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaug?

    This is what I have heard from a college source and a beat guy who I went to HS with who covers the Ravens. Cam and Harbs go WAAAAAAAYYY back to college years, Cameron hired Harbs, Harbs hired Cam.....they both became very good freinds off the feild and still are. Biscuit wanted to fire Cam after 2010, Harbs talked him out of it, Biscuit wanted to fire Cam after LAST year, Harbs talked him out of it. A compromise was made to change the offense and give Flacco and uptempo offense which he is more happy with, all was happy in the beginning of the season. Caldwell, was a fallback option if things didnt work out. Well, as the season progressed Cam became more of a control freak and dumped the up tempo offense and used poor blocking schemes in the pass and run game (which you saw the results past 4 games). He was told to change blocking schemes and open he offense, but REFUSED. Then Biscuit fired Cam. Biscuit is mad cause Harbaugh got the Ravens into this mess and had no power over Cameron more importantly. Biscuit feels like Harbs thought freindship over the organization, that's why he is on the boiling hotseat for lack of judgement..many players know this and he is less respected in the lockerroom. Is is true? IDK? But, the peices makes sense and the move makes sense. It is a business, and freindships take a backseat. Biscuit feels this is a SB team for the past few years so making playoffs isnt a big deal when comparing with other clubs, SB feels like we are the Patriots, Steelers, Packers etc....
    Truth of fiction, maybe a little of both, but that is what I've been told, by 1 great source and 1 fairly good source.




  6. #141
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by GirlsKickButt View Post
    Stevie B did not become a billionaire by making rash decisions and shit-canning people as successful as Harbs has been.
    Than why did he let Cam go?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #142
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Than why did he let Cam go?
    I don't think it was Stevie B's call. I think Harbs made the final decision after consulting with Biscuit. Biscuit isn't the Jerry Jones, micro-manage type. But, if Harbs was on the hot seat, I think it was due to the fact he was too loyal to Cam.




  8. #143
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by GirlsKickButt View Post
    I don't think it was Stevie B's call. I think Harbs made the final decision after consulting with Biscuit. Biscuit isn't the Jerry Jones, micro-manage type. But, Harbs was on the hot seat, I think it was due to the fact he was too loyal to Cam.
    At the very least (in your scenario) he approved it.

    I see your point, but I am on the other end thinking Steve B didn't get to be a billionaire by holding on to a bunch of people who were almost good enough.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  9. #144

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    If I am Bisciotti, I am also a little annoyed at Ozzie. Why does this have to come from the owner? Why didn't the GM push harder for this move earlier?
    Yes, I agree. Ozzie is a little passive. He let BB draft Boller when he was against it.




  10. #145
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Than why did he let Cam go?
    Because releasing Cam has been a issue of discussion since at least 2 seasons ago, so it wasn't rash.

    And while the TEAM was successful, the offense has clearly not developed at the rate or with the consistency that some of our raw talent would indicate it should. So Cam is not as successful an OC as Harbs is a head coach.

    Finally, because I don't think it was Steve's decision. I think it was John's with Steve's blessing at least and input at most.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  11. #146
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    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaug?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    This is what I have heard from a college source and a beat guy who I went to HS with who covers the Ravens. Cam and Harbs go WAAAAAAAYYY back to college years, Cameron hired Harbs, Harbs hired Cam.....they both became very good freinds off the feild and still are. Biscuit wanted to fire Cam after 2010, Harbs talked him out of it, Biscuit wanted to fire Cam after LAST year, Harbs talked him out of it. A compromise was made to change the offense and give Flacco and uptempo offense which he is more happy with, all was happy in the beginning of the season. Caldwell, was a fallback option if things didnt work out. Well, as the season progressed Cam became more of a control freak and dumped the up tempo offense and used poor blocking schemes in the pass and run game (which you saw the results past 4 games). He was told to change blocking schemes and open he offense, but REFUSED. Then Biscuit fired Cam. Biscuit is mad cause Harbaugh got the Ravens into this mess and had no power over Cameron more importantly. Biscuit feels like Harbs thought freindship over the organization, that's why he is on the boiling hotseat for lack of judgement..many players know this and he is less respected in the lockerroom. Is is true? IDK? But, the peices makes sense and the move makes sense. It is a business, and freindships take a backseat. Biscuit feels this is a SB team for the past few years so making playoffs isnt a big deal when comparing with other clubs, SB feels like we are the Patriots, Steelers, Packers etc....
    Truth of fiction, maybe a little of both, but that is what I've been told, by 1 great source and 1 fairly good source.
    I like the thought process.

    Shades of Lewis hanging with Bisciotti at Terps games before Billick got fired. Flacco is Bisciotti's newest favorite and Cam gets shitcaned. Makes sense...




  12. #147
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    At the very least (in your scenario) he approved it.

    I see your point, but I am on the other end thinking Steve B didn't get to be a billionaire by holding on to a bunch of people who were almost good enough.
    He's the owner so at the very least, he approved it.

    But like SpamBot said above, the most successful coaches need quite a few "whacks at the pinyata (sp)" to actually go to and win a Super Bowl. The more times you get into the playoffs, the more chances you have. I'm sure Biscuit knows that.




  13. #148
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Because releasing Cam has been a issue of discussion since at least 2 seasons ago, so it wasn't rash.

    And while the TEAM was successful, the offense has clearly not developed at the rate or with the consistency that some of our raw talent would indicate it should. So Cam is not as successful an OC as Harbs is a head coach.

    Finally, because I don't think it was Steve's decision. I think it was John's with Steve's blessing at least and input at most.
    We'll have to agree to disagree there.

    I think Cam's been on the hot seat for awhile. Harbaugh knew it, personally I could see Harbaugh giving him gameballs (which Steve B is there for) to help create a perception he was doing a good job.

    I've had plenty of managers in my life and they would do stupid meaningless things (like giving a gameball to Cam) to prop up a guy that wasn't pulling his weight, but they liked them and wanted to keep him on.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  14. #149
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Because releasing Cam has been a issue of discussion since at least 2 seasons ago, so it wasn't rash.

    And while the TEAM was successful, the offense has clearly not developed at the rate or with the consistency that some of our raw talent would indicate it should. So Cam is not as successful an OC as Harbs is a head coach.

    Finally, because I don't think it was Steve's decision. I think it was John's with Steve's blessing at least and input at most.
    I agree. If Steve wanted Cam out that badly, why even give him a contract extension?




  15. #150
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I agree. If Steve wanted Cam out that badly, why even give him a contract extension?
    Because it was up last year? Also wasn't it up at the end of this year?

    Plus he gave one to Billick only to fire him a year later.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




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