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  1. #76

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?



    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Is it just possible that Ozzie and Bisciotti are sold on Flacco, but only at a certain price? I would love to get a 5-series BMW, and am sold on it at a price of $50,000, but not so much at $80,000.
    Absolutely, but based on Bisciotti's comment, it sounds like it's still a pretty high number (although, obviously under what Flacco is/was seeking).

    But, again, that may just have been playing to the PR game.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  2. #77

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    We can all be mad at Harbaugh, but the guy has won a lot of football games and turned us into a dynasty of sorts. He is safe.

    Same for Joe, really. Yeah, he is maddening but above-average QBs with huge arms don't grow on trees. Dumping Flacco and trying to draft someone from our usual draft position would be crazy.




  3. #78
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    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    We can all be mad at Harbaugh, but the guy has won a lot of football games and turned us into a dynasty of sorts. He is safe.

    Same for Joe, really. Yeah, he is maddening but above-average QBs with huge arms don't grow on trees. Dumping Flacco and trying to draft someone from our usual draft position would be crazy.
    But what if a team gave the Ravens a Top 10 pick in the first round for Flacco? Then the Ravens wouldn't be drafting in the 20s. Yes, I am looking at you AZ, KC, JAX, or OAK.




  4. #79

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    But what if a team gave the Ravens a Top 10 pick in the first round for Flacco? Then the Ravens wouldn't be drafting in the 20s. Yes, I am looking at you AZ, KC, JAX, or OAK.
    Flacco is a quarterback who has the upside to go on the road and drive 92 yards against the best defense in the league for a last-second win. He has the upside to throw his way to a Super Bowl when his star running back is averaging 3 yards a carry. He has the upside to win any game in the NFL at any time anywhere.

    I understand full well that his primary drawback is his ability to combine that kind of upside with maddening inconsistency, but I'm sorry, you don't throw that away for a top 10 draft pick, 50% of which end up being full blown BUSTS (as in not on the team or not even in football anymore) by years 4 or 5.

    There are NO prospects in the draft who are such can't-miss locks as to make you give up on a guy like Flacco. Look at the Colts last year--they took Andrew Luck over Peyton Manning, and that was an incredibly difficult decision. But Manning was 37 years old with a neck hanging on by a thread at 20 million a year, while Andrew Luck was the best quarterback prospect since John Elway. You're not even talking about a decision like that! You're talking about dump Flacco, spin the wheel, and see how things fall! That is idiotic.




  5. #80

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    I hope the fanbase doesnt expect immediate miracles with Joe. He is gonna have to go through a cleansing process. Whether he doesnt want to admit it or not, Cam has had a big influence on Joe. I assume Jim's offense will have more shorter route options during a 3rd and 2, but Joe will probably see 1 on 1 coverage on the outside and instinctly want to throw that 9 route. As Yoda said.... He must unlean what he has learned. Take's time.




  6. #81
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    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    I hope the fanbase doesnt expect immediate miracles with Joe. He is gonna have to go through a cleansing process. Whether he doesnt want to admit it or not, Cam has had a big influence on Joe. I assume Jim's offense will have more shorter route options during a 3rd and 2, but Joe will probably see 1 on 1 coverage on the outside and instinctly want to throw that 9 route. As Yoda said.... He must unlean what he has learned. Take's time.
    I would agree somewhat. But some of the bigger plays this year he has hit players in a seam or coming in or out of the middle. Look at the locations of the TD throws last week. What was the routes.




  7. #82
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    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Flacco is a quarterback who has the upside to go on the road and drive 92 yards against the best defense in the league for a last-second win. He has the upside to throw his way to a Super Bowl when his star running back is averaging 3 yards a carry. He has the upside to win any game in the NFL at any time anywhere.

    I understand full well that his primary drawback is his ability to combine that kind of upside with maddening inconsistency, but I'm sorry, you don't throw that away for a top 10 draft pick, 50% of which end up being full blown BUSTS (as in not on the team or not even in football anymore) by years 4 or 5.

    There are NO prospects in the draft who are such can't-miss locks as to make you give up on a guy like Flacco. Look at the Colts last year--they took Andrew Luck over Peyton Manning, and that was an incredibly difficult decision. But Manning was 37 years old with a neck hanging on by a thread at 20 million a year, while Andrew Luck was the best quarterback prospect since John Elway. You're not even talking about a decision like that! You're talking about dump Flacco, spin the wheel, and see how things fall! That is idiotic.
    So, is there any limit to what you would pay Flacco? What is idiotic is to hand Flacco a blank check, because you have no confidence in your FO to draft another QB. Russell Wilson was what a third round pick, and could be rookie of the year. I think Ozzie is a great GM, but in the entire time the Ravens have been in Baltimore, he has hit on one QB and one WR. (Flacco and Torrey Smith). What would be so shocking if Bisciotti turned to Ozzie and said, "Find me another good young QB in the draft"?




  8. #83

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    So, is there any limit to what you would pay Flacco? What is idiotic is to hand Flacco a blank check, because you have no confidence in your FO to draft another QB. Russell Wilson was what a third round pick, and could be rookie of the year. I think Ozzie is a great GM, but in the entire time the Ravens have been in Baltimore, he has hit on one QB and one WR. (Flacco and Torrey Smith). What would be so shocking if Bisciotti turned to Ozzie and said, "Find me another good young QB in the draft"?
    You are making this into a false dilemma, I.E., your argument is that there are only two options:

    1) Pay Flacco a back-breaking salary that renders this team unable to compete ever again, or
    2) Dump Flacco.

    The reality is that both of those two things are unlikely. In your world, no team would ever be able to re-sign their quarterback.

    The most likely scenario is that the Ravens re-sign Flacco to a deal both sides are comfortable with, and I believe that can happen. Another problem with your argument is that we have no idea what the present state of the negotiations are or who is asking for what. We will NEVER know those things, and don't assume the "leaked information" you get from the press is anything other than what it is--noise, fog, and misdirection.




  9. #84

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    I think the first stumbling block (and major one) was exorcising Cam. Now its just numbers.

    I'd say 7yrs - 100-105M with $30-35M guaranteed with major incentives added on.

    Joe's a $14M+/yr type QB with his skillset and potential. All the teams that dont have franchise QBs would easily pay that much for Joe on his POTENTIAL. The Ravens would probably be given a slight discount b/c they are winners, he is comfortable here... even more w/o Cam... yada yada. But he isn't gonna take a huge hometeam discount under his market value. Like or not it, Ravens have gotta come to grips with the fact that their aging Superstars just arent worth big chunks of the salary cap. Lewis and Reed are icons here and we would all love to see them get another SB ring here (1st one for Ed), but if it means jettisoning them to get someone younger, cheaper, more reliable healthwise and probably as good on the field in their place....count me in. At the end of the day, its a business, and the Ravens' job is to win.
    Last edited by ravensnhokies; 12-11-2012 at 05:26 PM.




  10. #85
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    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    You are making this into a false dilemma, I.E., your argument is that there are only two options:

    1) Pay Flacco a back-breaking salary that renders this team unable to compete ever again, or
    2) Dump Flacco.

    The reality is that both of those two things are unlikely. In your world, no team would ever be able to re-sign their quarterback.

    The most likely scenario is that the Ravens re-sign Flacco to a deal both sides are comfortable with, and I believe that can happen. Another problem with your argument is that we have no idea what the present state of the negotiations are or who is asking for what. We will NEVER know those things, and don't assume the "leaked information" you get from the press is anything other than what it is--noise, fog, and misdirection.
    Fair enough. You are correct that we don't know the state of the current negotiations. All we do know is that the Ravens made Flacco an offer that he rejected before the season started, but we don't know what the terms of that offer were. The Ravens have been negotiating with Flacco's agent for a while, so it is highly likely that proposed terms have been submitted by both sides, with no agreement as of yet. The rest is just speculation. I would love for Flacco to be resigned to a deal both sides agree with. The problem that you seem to be ignoring is that there appears to be a difference in perception regarding Flacco's value between Flacco and his agent and the Ravens. Sometimes those differences are not bridged, otherwise no player would leave their team.




  11. #86
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    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    I think the first stumbling block (and major one) was exorcising Cam. Now its just numbers.

    I'd say 7yrs - 100-105M with $30-35M guaranteed with major incentives added on.
    That is way too high for Flacco based on his performance to date. Major incentives on top of a $100+ million base, or a $100+ million base that includes major incentives?




  12. #87

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    That is way too high for Flacco based on his performance to date. Major incentives on top of a $100+ million base, or a $100+ million base that includes major incentives?
    You're not paying Joe on performance to date... You're paying on Potential in the Future. Some team would give him that, and that's all it takes.




  13. #88

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    RUMOR has it. It's Harbaugh. If season ended today he would be fired. He has the rest of the regular season and the playoffs to keep his job.




  14. #89
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    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    its hard to believe harbs is on the hot seat




  15. #90

    Re: So is Flacco on tht seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    its hard to believe harbs is on the hot seat
    I do too, but Biscuit doesnt like complacency. We'll see if the rumor is true. Their will be several coaching candidates of value this offseason. After about 5 years or so a coaches message in this era gets stale. Did he wait too long to fire CC? Who the hell knows.
    I was surprise Biscuit fire BB after a 13-3 season the year before and then had an injury riddled one the next. I guess injuries aren't an excuse.




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