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  1. #16

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?



    Sorry, but I cannot take any thread seriously that namecalls our players. We have no player on the team called "Joe Statue".




  2. #17

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firststater View Post
    "Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?" Yep, no doubt about it. Blitz coming from his left. He sees the blitz formation and never seems to adjust the offense to compensate. He invariably takes the sack, and more than likely will fumble the ball when hit in the 4th Qtr. Pittsburgh knows the drill well. For years everyone wondered if he could read defenses. Some are still asking that same question in his 5th year. Plus, some of his press conferences are mundane and high-school like in information transfer.
    What about on the next drive when the defense lined up in the same overload blitz and Joe hit Boldin crossing behind the blitz. The play that set up the Rice TD? Cherry picking bad plays is easy to do with any QB. That would be like criticizing Rice for getting a negative yard or missing a whole and getting caught in the backfield. This offense has very few easy throws for a QB. The play calling never allows him to get in a rhythm.




  3. #18

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    His numbers through the first 5 seasons compare very favorably with Brady's. They also compare favorably with Peyton Manning
    Not really. Compare the rankings among their peers in all major categories. Such a comparison is not "very favorable" to Joe. Not at all.

    I do agree that one cannot definitively label a person's ceiling after a few or even 5 years. But you can still evaluate progress or make judgments about whether there is some kind of limiting factor that might affect an eventual ceiling.

    For me, until I see Joe without Cameron, I will not be able to make a firm judgment about him. But I also am in the camp that thinks Joe is partially responsible for our struggles (even if Cameron is primarily responsible).




  4. #19

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Joe's problem is largely consistency.
    Our offense's problem (post Cam) is the sub-par pass blocking OL.

    Fix the OL and you'll see a more consistent Joe AND a better passing game...that in-turn gives you a better two-headed monster at RB.




  5. #20

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I don't think 3-4 games sans-Cameron is enough evaluation to determine how much of the problems were Joe's. So if we really need more info before ponying up huge money to Joe, then we have to franchise him. But franchising him will wreak havoc on our cap next year.

    I think a lot depends on Joe's demands. I don't think anyone really has a clear idea of what they were before the season started or what they are now.
    It's hard to say what amount of time would be "enough." I would argue that the Flacco situation is the single most important contract negotiation in Ravens history. ANY additional information helps the decision-making process.

    There's so many unknown variables that make it impossible to speculate as fans... as you said, we have no idea what Flacco is demanding outside of what has been leaked to the press, and information leaked to the press is totally unreliable. People involved in the negotiations don't leak info to inform anybody, but rather to manipulate the situation to their advantage. I believe absolutely nothing I've heard thus far.




  6. #21

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Joe can scramble well enough. We've seen it plenty of times. He's actually quite good at it. He just seems bad at sensing the blitz from his blindside, that's all. Whenever the blitz is on his front, he moves perfectly to where he needs to go. He can buy plenty of time.




  7. #22

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CptJesus View Post
    Joe can scramble well enough. We've seen it plenty of times. He's actually quite good at it. He just seems bad at sensing the blitz from his blindside, that's all. Whenever the blitz is on his front, he moves perfectly to where he needs to go. He can buy plenty of time.
    The blitz that caused him to throw the interception in the red-zone was from his front side. He never saw it because he was staring down his primary receiver (pre and post snap).




  8. #23

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    If it takes Joe longer then make the play selection quicker. Have your OL put their helmets in the bellies of th DL so they can't block the pass and gttr done. However, Joe must learn to after 2.5 seconds to through the ball in the dirt while at the same time being mindful of intentional grounding. A no huddle, short passing game with an occasional long one, will suit Joe. Just like Peyton he's more a pocket passer than a scrambler. And let's not forget about Rice and Pierce.




  9. #24
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    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    I find it amusing that this thread was started by poster named Akili. lmao

    Akili Smith just because you were horrific with the Bengals there's no reason tot ake it out on Joe.




  10. #25

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    It's hard to say what amount of time would be "enough." I would argue that the Flacco situation is the single most important contract negotiation in Ravens history. ANY additional information helps the decision-making process.

    There's so many unknown variables that make it impossible to speculate as fans... as you said, we have no idea what Flacco is demanding outside of what has been leaked to the press, and information leaked to the press is totally unreliable. People involved in the negotiations don't leak info to inform anybody, but rather to manipulate the situation to their advantage. I believe absolutely nothing I've heard thus far.
    I completely agree with everything here, especially this:

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I would argue that the Flacco situation is the single most important contract negotiation in Ravens history.




  11. #26
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    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    I've been reading a lot of comments about Joe holding onto the ball too long. And he's consistently been among the top fumblers in the league for five seasons, getting worse each year, among the likes of Sanchez, Newton, Vick, Cassel, Rivers, and Tebow. Not good, particularly for a guy who doesn't run much.

    But I've often wondered how much of this is attributable to playing in Cameron's system. Recall that the "Air Coryell" scheme is a very vertical attack, and each year Cameron had seemed to rely on the scheme more and more. With speed of Torrey and Jacoby, the thought was that this season, more than any other, would be one in which the Ravens could attack downfield and take advantage of Flacco's big arm.

    And it worked. Coming into yesterday's game, Flacco was fourth in the league in 20+ yard completions with 51 (Luck 56, Peyton 53, Brees 52). Yesterday he had three completions over 20 yards and another 19 yard TD to Boldin.

    My contention is this. Cam wanted Flacco to throw the long ball, and it requires that your QB stand in the pocket for a long time as the play develops. The first TD to Boldin was a double move that required Flacco to pump and then wait, wait, wait, for quite a bit before letting the ball go. With protection, it paid off. When the protection isn't as good, as we saw later with Oher, standing around like that causes the fumbles we've seen. Remember, we're talking about the proverbial blind side. I know what people are saying when they want Flacco to hear footsteps, but I suspect pressure from the blindside is what you get when you ask the QB to stand there and wait for the deep man to get open.

    So... what I expect is that with Cam gone, we'll see fewer deep balls and "explosive" plays, but on the plus side, more complex, shorter routes, quicker reads and fewer sacks and fumbles. I hope to see less pressure on Oher. I've noticed that Flacco has not done a good job this season throwing the ball prior to receivers coming out of breaks. I hope that, too, is improved with less focus on throwing deep and letting receivers run underneath.




  12. #27
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    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    It's hard to say what amount of time would be "enough." I would argue that the Flacco situation is the single most important contract negotiation in Ravens history. ANY additional information helps the decision-making process.
    I suspect they are willing to franchise Flacco and give him most of next year to show where he belongs in the NFL QB hierarchy. The remaining games this see will be more about seeing if handing him completely over to Caldwell can catch lightening in a bottle and warrant continuing with that approach next year or whether Caldwell is better as a position coach and they'll need to fetch someone like Norv Turner to gameplan for Joe in 2013.




  13. #28
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    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    I have no problem being critical of Flacco but he needs help. They have to run the ball to get play action working. If they can't block the pass rush they need to move the pocket, call quick screens and delayed draws.

    When he has protection he can make every throw IMO. Those two turnovers yesterday were really not his fault, again IMO
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  14. #29

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    I've been reading a lot of comments about Joe holding onto the ball too long. And he's consistently been among the top fumblers in the league for five seasons, getting worse each year, among the likes of Sanchez, Newton, Vick, Cassel, Rivers, and Tebow. Not good, particularly for a guy who doesn't run much.

    But I've often wondered how much of this is attributable to playing in Cameron's system. Recall that the "Air Coryell" scheme is a very vertical attack, and each year Cameron had seemed to rely on the scheme more and more. With speed of Torrey and Jacoby, the thought was that this season, more than any other, would be one in which the Ravens could attack downfield and take advantage of Flacco's big arm.

    And it worked. Coming into yesterday's game, Flacco was fourth in the league in 20+ yard completions with 51 (Luck 56, Peyton 53, Brees 52). Yesterday he had three completions over 20 yards and another 19 yard TD to Boldin.

    My contention is this. Cam wanted Flacco to throw the long ball, and it requires that your QB stand in the pocket for a long time as the play develops. The first TD to Boldin was a double move that required Flacco to pump and then wait, wait, wait, for quite a bit before letting the ball go. With protection, it paid off. When the protection isn't as good, as we saw later with Oher, standing around like that causes the fumbles we've seen. Remember, we're talking about the proverbial blind side. I know what people are saying when they want Flacco to hear footsteps, but I suspect pressure from the blindside is what you get when you ask the QB to stand there and wait for the deep man to get open.

    So... what I expect is that with Cam gone, we'll see fewer deep balls and "explosive" plays, but on the plus side, more complex, shorter routes, quicker reads and fewer sacks and fumbles. I hope to see less pressure on Oher. I've noticed that Flacco has not done a good job this season throwing the ball prior to receivers coming out of breaks. I hope that, too, is improved with less focus on throwing deep and letting receivers run underneath.
    The difference between joe and the other guys on the deep ball list is the distance the ball is traveling in the air. Under the Ravens offense the deep balls are just about all throwing the ball deep over top the defense. The other QBs hit receivers on slants and other quick hitters and give them a chance stretch the play out.

    The sack strips increasing this year are a result of a couple of things. One as you mentioned the deep routes. The oline is really bad on the edges this year as Osmele and Oher are worse than McKinnie and Oher from last year. The regression of the middle of the Oline. He rarely has a clean pocket to step up in. He has also held the ball longer than he should waiting for receivers to get open. With the defense playing poorly I think he is putting more pressure on himself to make something happen. He also needs to step up and get rid of it quicker. The fumble yesterday he should have stepped up in the pocket. Oher got beat pretty badly but if Joe had stepped up he may have been able to get rid of the ball. It was a straightline to him once the End got around Oher rather than having to curl back in to get him.




  15. #30

    Re: Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    There's so many unknown variables that make it impossible to speculate as fans... as you said, we have no idea what Flacco is demanding outside of what has been leaked to the press, and information leaked to the press is totally unreliable. People involved in the negotiations don't leak info to inform anybody, but rather to manipulate the situation to their advantage. I believe absolutely nothing I've heard thus far.
    Well, I agree that without official information, it is all speculation. But I do know that, historically, the Ravens have always done right by their home-grown players. Occassionally a drafted player has left (Grubbs, Adalius Thomas, etc.), but usually that was because another team made a market-setting deal, not because the Ravens were low-balling the player.

    I got back to B-More's analysis on Flacco's worth...the Ravens don't know, so they probably offerred him a conservative deal + incentives (Ozzie loves incentives). It therefore stands to reason, due to lack of a deal, that Flacco's camp wants more guaranteed money.

    In other words, the Ravens see an above-average QB with the potential to be very good if not great, and Flacco's camp sees a very good QB that has already proven his worth.




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