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  1. #556

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Corey -

    They very well could have offered something like that to Cam, but he said no way.

    This was coming. Whether or not anyone wanted to realize it, this was coming. The offense had stagnated, things that worked were never revisted, no adjustments were ever made, and you could just kind of tell that there was a general lack of interest from Flacco and some of the other players on offense.
    He was fired because protection schemes, losing two leads in back to back games. I dont think thier is a lack of interest at all, Joe has about $100 million riding on this. He just never accepted player imput during the game and made adjustments. He treated everyone as a robot, no one liked him. The Ravens players and coaches were fed up, he cost them 2 games and almost 3 if you count San Diego. The witch is dead.




  2. #557

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I can't wait to see what this offense can do without Cam handcuffing it but I do question the timing. Why now? They could have stripped him of his playcalling duties and kept him on as basically a consultant until the end of the season. Cam doesn't seem like the type but he could sell info about our team to the highest bidder by signing on with one of our competitors.
    Or the owner just flew off the handle like 98% of the fan base last night and wanted somebody's head.




  3. #558

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I can't wait to see what this offense can do without Cam handcuffing it but I do question the timing. Why now? They could have stripped him of his playcalling duties and kept him on as basically a consultant until the end of the season. Cam doesn't seem like the type but he could sell info about our team to the highest bidder by signing on with one of our competitors.
    He won't and can't he is still getting paid by the Ravens a few million.




  4. #559

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Or the owner just flew off the handle like 98% of the fan base last night and wanted somebody's head.
    Do you watch games?




  5. #560

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    I'm watching the video RIW. Its just not the same situation. But I've also seen Eli fumble out of these. I don't indict Flacco as much over this one play.

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    Not sure what you mean by indicting Flacco. He made an obvious mistake IMHO. Not saying we need to get rid of him or that he isn't good. Don't know why I can' point out a huge play in the game and simply say, that particular play was Player "X"'s fault. We do it for everybody else...but when it's Flacco, everybody gets super defensive.

    As for the play...sorry buddy other than the Redskins showing the blitz from jump and Joe being in the shotgun, it is exactly the same...and Joe holding the ball and Eli getting rid of it. Both blitzes came from the right side of the formation. Both had guys completely free bearing down from the right side. Neither guy had time to step up in the pocket.

    Joe drifted back a couple steps after his drop from the snap. Eli immediately launched the ball. Eli actually turned his entire body around to protect himself after his throwing motion. T

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    Raveninwoodlawn, I agree he has to eat that ball, but the play call had enormous risk vs reward potential. That's the issue. That's why he was reportedly fired over protections schemes that cost the Ravens back to back games with the LEAD to inferior teams. Pittsburgh is AWFUL, the only decent games they played are vs the Ravens recently.
    Whatever man. You just tried to basically make it out like we were the only team in the league in the last...who knows how many decades...that doesn't have a hot route available.

    The play could have been salvaged by the QB. No matter how bad you think the play call from the sideline is.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  6. #561

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Not sure what you mean by indicting Flacco. He made an obvious mistake IMHO. Not saying we need to get rid of him or that he isn't good. Don't know why I can' point out a huge play in the game and simply say, that particular play was Player "X"'s fault. We do it for everybody else...but when it's Flacco, everybody gets super defensive.
    You've read this forum in the last 24 hours right? I didn't say you want to get rid of him. But he's being basically called football stupid by people here for that play, and laying the entire game's loss on him because of it.

    As for the play...sorry buddy other than the Redskins showing the blitz from jump and Joe being in the shotgun, it is exactly the same
    So what you're saying is, other than the fact that the situation is completely different, it's the same?

    ...and Joe holding the ball and Eli getting rid of it. Both blitzes came from the right side of the formation. Both had guys completely free bearing down from the right side. Neither guy had time to step up in the pocket.
    Again, they are in two very different formations and the pressure comes from different areas. Eli is behind center and it's 5 on 5, where the pressure had to come around. Flacco was in the gun, with no one around him, and 6 on 5, which also means the ball got to him slower than it did to Eli. Flacco backed up because the pressure came straight at him. If the pressure came from the same spot that Eli's did Flacco would have moved sideways, not reverse. And Flacco tried to get the ball out. It wasn't a fumble. His arm got hit. Maybe under center Flacco gets the ball off because he's not already that far behind the OL and someone isn't moving him back.

    I'm watching the videos you linked. We're just seeing something different on this one. If I'm Jim Caldwell, I tell Flacco if he sees that again in an empty backfield that he is allowed to shift Rice back into the backfield.
    Last edited by StingerNLG; 12-11-2012 at 12:56 AM.




  7. #562

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    You've read this forum in the last 24 hours right? I didn't say you want to get rid of him. But he's being basically called football stupid by people here for that play, and laying the entire game's loss on him because of it.



    So what you're saying is, other than the fact that the situation is completely different, it's the same?



    Again, they are in two very different formations and the pressure comes from different areas. Eli is behind center and it's 5 on 5, where the pressure had to come around. Flacco was in the gun, with no one around him, and 6 on 5, which also means the ball got to him slower than it did to Eli. Flacco backed up because the pressure came straight at him. If the pressure came from the same spot that Eli's did Flacco would have moved sideways, not reverse. And Flacco tried to get the ball out. It wasn't a fumble. His arm got hit. Maybe under center Flacco gets the ball off because he's not already that far behind the OL and someone isn't moving him back.

    I'm watching the videos you linked. We're just seeing something different on this one. If I'm Jim Caldwell, I tell Flacco if he sees that again in an empty backfield that he is allowed to shift Rice back into the backfield.

    Joe drifted back a couple steps after his drop from the snap. Eli immediately launched the ball. Eli actually turned his entire body around to protect himself after his throwing motion. T



    Whatever man. You just tried to basically make it out like we were the only team in the league in the last...who knows how many decades...that doesn't have a hot route available.

    The play could have been salvaged by the QB. No matter how bad you think the play call from the sideline is.
    [/QUOTE]

    I just think you seem to be stuck on the specifics of formations...I am looking at the end result of the plays up until the QB either throws in Eli's case or gets hit while trying to throw in Joe's case.

    In both videos, pressure came from the same side, both had a completely free rusher regardless of how many blockers there were, and both rushers got there very quickly. Joe had time to take 2 short steps back after a shotgun drop, Eli did not on his drop. I would argue that the guy got to Eli even quicker than Joe. Even if Eli took a sack right there, that would be a more heads up play than trying to throw with a guy draped over you.

    And there is a clear difference how both reacted...on that play in particular. Not blaming the loss on Joe at all as there is so much more that goes into games than a few plays by any particular player, but IMHO, he cost us points or at least a shot at points that would have won us the game at that point. I don't think that is debatable.

    I also don't think shifting Rice back would have accomplished a lot on that type of defensive call...instead of 5 blocking 6, on all out blitz calls like that, it would have simply turned into 6 blocking 7. The man responsible to cover Rice in man would not have just stayed out there covering nobody...he would have came as well.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #563

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    I'm glad to see Cam gone, but you have to question the timing. No way is a new offense getting installed this season. Getting rid of Cam only does one thing, sends a message to the players that things are going to change.

    Maybe this is what the players need to get some motivation. If Cam was as much of an albatross around their necks as he seemed to be, just ditching him might provide a nice spark. I just hope they come out fired up and not flat against Manning. Caldwell is basically showcasing himself for the next three weeks and the playoff run.

    I don't know if the Ravens are going to stick with Caldwell, but if he puts up a decent playoff run I'm sure he will get some attention around the league.




  9. #564
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    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    I'm glad to see Cam gone, but you have to question the timing. No way is a new offense getting installed this season. Getting rid of Cam only does one thing, sends a message to the players that things are going to change.

    Maybe this is what the players need to get some motivation. If Cam was as much of an albatross around their necks as he seemed to be, just ditching him might provide a nice spark. I just hope they come out fired up and not flat against Manning. Caldwell is basically showcasing himself for the next three weeks and the playoff run.

    I don't know if the Ravens are going to stick with Caldwell, but if he puts up a decent playoff run I'm sure he will get some attention around the league.
    Do we really need to throw the baby out with the bath water though? I know a lot of people don't like AC, I am not a fan either but it has worked well for us at times. The key is getting it to work on a more consistent basis. Less Cam and more Joe might be just what the doctor ordered.




  10. #565

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Not sure what you mean by indicting Flacco. He made an obvious mistake IMHO. Not saying we need to get rid of him or that he isn't good. Don't know why I can' point out a huge play in the game and simply say, that particular play was Player "X"'s fault. We do it for everybody else...but when it's Flacco, everybody gets super defensive.

    As for the play...sorry buddy other than the Redskins showing the blitz from jump and Joe being in the shotgun, it is exactly the same...and Joe holding the ball and Eli getting rid of it. Both blitzes came from the right side of the formation. Both had guys completely free bearing down from the right side. Neither guy had time to step up in the pocket.

    Joe drifted back a couple steps after his drop from the snap. Eli immediately launched the ball. Eli actually turned his entire body around to protect himself after his throwing motion. T



    Whatever man. You just tried to basically make it out like we were the only team in the league in the last...who knows how many decades...that doesn't have a hot route available.

    The play could have been salvaged by the QB. No matter how bad you think the play call from the sideline is.
    Where did I say that. We obviously don't use if often. It exists I know but's it not something that Cameron uses. I think Joe did try to salvage(key word) the play, but was hit as he threw and ball bounced around into Fletchers hands. Why are they using high risk plays in the RZ with points to be made is my point. That situation shouldn't have to SALVAGED.




  11. #566

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    I just think you seem to be stuck on the specifics of formations...I am looking at the end result of the plays up until the QB either throws in Eli's case or gets hit while trying to throw in Joe's case.
    I'm stuck on the specifics of the formation because they present two very different scenerios for the QB. The result is different because the QB's are in two completely different spots and receiving the ball in two completely different places. The formation has everything to do with it.

    In both videos, pressure came from the same side, both had a completely free rusher regardless of how many blockers there were, and both rushers got there very quickly. Joe had time to take 2 short steps back after a shotgun drop, Eli did not on his drop. I would argue that the guy got to Eli even quicker than Joe. Even if Eli took a sack right there, that would be a more heads up play than trying to throw with a guy draped over you.
    Here is the problem though. Both QB's released the ball around same time from the time they had the ball in their hands. And actually if you go back and time it, Flacco is getting the ball out faster than Eli. I counted 1 1/2 seconds for Flacco, and that includes him peddling back. That's arm going forward. Eli releases about a 1/4 second later.

    And watch the videos one more time. Yes, the free blitzer comes from the same side. But because Joe is in the shotgun the blitzer comes straight line at him and gets in FRONT of him, which is why he peddled back. Eli's blitzers are coming from his side, and the only reason they are in his face is because Eli looked that way and was throwing sideline, where Joe was looking at the middle of the field. Also, Eli may not have leaned forward, but he had enough time to set his feet for that throw. Joe did not, despite being in the shotgun.

    My point here is that you are taking two very different plays with two very different formations, with the quarterback in two very different positions, and trying to compare the reactions of the QB's when it's not quite fair. If you have Flacco in the same formation, or Eli in the same formation, then it's a fair comparison.




  12. #567

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired





  13. #568

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimoreboy View Post
    Yep, Orioleshangout.com has some smart posters. Love thier board. Best place for Baltimore sports opinions.




  14. #569
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    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Here is why this happened in my view:

    1) We hire Caldwell. Instantly Cam is put on notice that there is a new threat to him in the building. Just like with Zorn. It is well documented Zorn and Flacco really got along. Cam probably thought this somehow undermined his authority, didn't like it, and had Zorn removed. Flacco was upset. And apparently a similar relationship exists now with Caldwell.

    2) From what I've read, Cam is a control freak. Apparently his way is the only/best way. We already know he is rigid, to a fault. From Aaron Wilson it seems Caldwell had a lot to do with installing the no-huddle package in the offseason. We know this package has had success, and that Joe prefers it. We ran it a lot in the beginning, and yet have stopped as of late. Joe has noted he doesn't know why we stopped using it. In view of what we know, it seems to me Cam maybe intentionally stopped using it because it was making Caldwell look better and better - the system that Caldwell was integral in is successful and favored by the QB. Once again Cam feels like his authority is threatened, so he kills the no huddle, reverts almost exclusively back to "his" system and uses the "game flow" excuse for why the no-huddle is no longer being run - even though we all know you can use no-huddle to dictate your own game flow (see NE).

    3) The offense has been inconsistent all year, just like in years past. Vry little progress if any. Consistently middle to lower half of the league in most categories. We look amazing one minute and then lost and confused the next. The mainstream media has even noted it. It was broadcast on Ravens wrap-up program that Boldin literally went to the sideline and told Cam to change the plays up because they defense knew exactly what we were going to do. Embarrassing for Cam. No end in sight of this jekyl and hyde offense it seemed.

    4) We are one 4th and 29 play away from losing 3 straight. We barely beat Pitt. in Pitt. Ray Rice seemingly discontent about under usage. The two games we have lost have been a full effort team loss, but it is clear the offense sputtered as usual in each of those games, not too mention the turnovers which have been killer. A lot of that is on Joe, but Cam once again calls plays that do not fit the situation. This is nothing new. He has done this over and over - no game plan adjustment. Calling a play that takes 5 seconds to develop when he knows the opposing D will be blitzing. Joe gets creamed, as expected, and is either sacked for a loss or fumbles. We have seen it time and time again.

    5) Steve B finally had enough. He has a multi-million dollar decision to make and needs to know if the Cam/Flacco issues have been the barrier or if we have simply seen the best of what Flacco can offer. Time to see what Flacco can do with more liberty and freedom, instead of having old man Cam beating the same tired rhetoric in his ear.




  15. #570

    Re: Coaching Change -- Cam Cameron has been Fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimoreboy View Post
    Someone on this board just posted the same thing you saw on page 4 of that thread. I wonder if they are the same guy?




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