Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

[The Excellector]

Sebastian Vollmer to have what seems to be a minor knee surgery: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...s-knee-surgery

[NC Raven]

Austin is an intriguing prospect but I'll play devil's advocate. Why do some doubt Teo because of the Bama game but yet no one mentions the competition that Austin played against. Do they even still play defense in the Big 12? I just don't get the lovefest with a 5'8' slot WR. IMO he's no better than R. Cobb. Packers got Cobb after they won the SB. They seemed to fall in love with offense and forgot about their defensive issues. Unless Austin can play FS, MLB, or NT then I'll pass.

That's kind of how I see him. His main thing is his agility - he can tightrope a sideline like no other, and he's fast as hell. But at his size, he needs to never get hit, and yeah, in the Big12, he didn't have to worry about getting hit. You have to put an asterisk next to every offensive player in that conference. Main thing for me is going to be durability, and consistency with making the catch. I think you can find plenty of similar type players [with similar speed but less agility] at a way lower draft slot than what he's projecting to go at.

Like I said, his agility is what sets him apart. Deonte Thompson is probbably just as fast but can't break ankles like Austin. As far as catching consistently... I don't know, but that's the #1 thing a receiver does. At his size he needs to be 100% on catches because his routes are going to be limited and predictable. Not sure he's even as versatile with routes as Welker, who everyone has him replacing.

People get enamored thinking teams are going to do all this crazy exotic stuff with a Harvin/austin type player. So, you can move Austin into the backfield and hand off to him? Great. But we already have Rice and Pierce.

Anybody remember Reggie Bush? Honestly I don't see how Austin is any different than him or CJ Spiller. [I compare them to Austin because both are RBs with good receiving skills, which is what Austin is, a converted RB who is good, but not awesome, as a WR per se]. Good players, but nothing to go nuts about. The NFL is a different place. The tricky schemes don't fool people, and speed isn't the deciding factor like it is in college.

[Jeremiah W]

That's kind of how I see him. His main thing is his agility - he can tightrope a sideline like no other, and he's fast as hell. But at his size, he needs to never get hit, and yeah, in the Big12, he didn't have to worry about getting hit. You have to put an asterisk next to every offensive player in that conference. Main thing for me is going to be durability, and consistency with making the catch. I think you can find plenty of similar type players [with similar speed but less agility] at a way lower draft slot than what he's projecting to go at.

Like I said, his agility is what sets him apart. Deonte Thompson is probbably just as fast but can't break ankles like Austin. As far as catching consistently... I don't know, but that's the #1 thing a receiver does. At his size he needs to be 100% on catches because his routes are going to be limited and predictable. Not sure he's even as versatile with routes as Welker, who everyone has him replacing.

People get enamored thinking teams are going to do all this crazy exotic stuff with a Harvin/austin type player. So, you can move Austin into the backfield and hand off to him? Great. But we already have Rice and Pierce.

Anybody remember Reggie Bush? Honestly I don't see how Austin is any different than him or CJ Spiller. [I compare them to Austin because both are RBs with good receiving skills, which is what Austin is, a converted RB who is good, but not awesome, as a WR per se]. Good players, but nothing to go nuts about. The NFL is a different place. The tricky schemes don't fool people, and speed isn't the deciding factor like it is in college.

Austin may be a playmaker in the mold of Bush and Spiller, but look how high those guys went in the draft. Percy Harvin is the only guy in the NFL that compares to Austin IMO. He is much more WR than RB, but he did not forget how to play RB if you ask Oklahoma.

[Miz89]

I've made up my mind and the one guy I really want in the first is Austin. I love Ogletree, Minter, and a few other guys, but Austin in the first and Arthur Brown in the second would be my dream. I have this fantasy with Joe lining up in the shotgun with a 5 wide of Boldin, Torrey, Austin, Pitta, and Deonte Thompson, who I've been a huge fan of since we picked him up. You have so much speed with Austin, Torrey, and Deonte, then the most reliable Boldin and Pitta.

[JMUpurkfool]

Did the Packers need Randall Cobb when they had Driver, Jennings, and Nelson?

No... but I bet they're glad they have him now.

[NC Raven]

Austin may be a playmaker in the mold of Bush and Spiller, but look how high those guys went in the draft. Percy Harvin is the only guy in the NFL that compares to Austin IMO. He is much more WR than RB, but he did not forget how to play RB if you ask Oklahoma.

That's true, and it shows how much NFL teams covet these types of players, even if they really are just "pretty good" rather than "hall of fame-worthy." All I'm really trying to say is you can find guys who will do the job and have the same basic tools further down in the draft, and I'm not talking UDFA, etc. (because of course, there's always guys taken later who end up better than first rounders; that's not my point) but typically when you're talking about "speed specialist WR" you can find comparables in Round 2 or 3.

Fast WR's are the shiny bling of the draft -- eye catching trinkets that get overvalued by the gullible. Luckily for the Ravens there's a lot of folks in other teams' draft rooms who fall for the bling. If Al Davis were alive today, nobody on this board would even be talking about Austin, because we all know where he would end up.

Not saying the bling is useless. Like you said, Bush and Spiller are very good players. I'm just saying, with the number of fast guys out there, speed is not something to fall in love with, but people do anyway. I would much rather have a slightly less fast guy who hangs on to the ball, runs the right plays, blocks downfield, etc. Granted Austin is a slot guy, but to me that just means he's not a first rounder unless your offense is predicated on having a slot guy with elite speed out there for 80+% of your offensive snaps. That's a pretty narrow job description. There's a few teams who need exactly that (like NE or one of the pussy arena-ball teams like NO or ATL), but as it stands the Ravens aren't one of them.

Only way we would take Austin is with a significant scheme change by Caldwell. IIRC, his slot WRs in Indy tended to be more the possession type.

[The Excellector]

I just feel like Austin's intangibles separate him from the pack. He's got vision like nobody's business.

[jonboy79]

. For the last time, Ozzie never thinks of needs in the draft, .

Thats simply not true at all. Need is HEAVILY factored into the draft board, and need is definately under consideration each tiem he is on the clock. Now, he doesn't walk into a draft thinking, I'm gonna draft LT in the first, DT in the second, ILB in the third, etc, but he has a list of positions and would like to draft the majority of them. His version of need may not be equal to ours either, as he is sometimes looking 2-3 years down the road when he considers need, but is often lookign at the upcoming year. What actually is fairly apparentto e, is that when Oz trades up, it isalmost exclusively at a position of need. Recent 1st round tradeups include Flacco, Ngata and Oher, all certainly immediate needs, meanwhile players like Pierce, Yanda and others attributed under the radar needs.

[Paintballguy]

That's true, and it shows how much NFL teams covet these types of players, even if they really are just "pretty good" rather than "hall of fame-worthy." All I'm really trying to say is you can find guys who will do the job and have the same basic tools further down in the draft, and I'm not talking UDFA, etc. (because of course, there's always guys taken later who end up better than first rounders; that's not my point) but typically when you're talking about "speed specialist WR" you can find comparables in Round 2 or 3.

Fast WR's are the shiny bling of the draft -- eye catching trinkets that get overvalued by the gullible. Luckily for the Ravens there's a lot of folks in other teams' draft rooms who fall for the bling. If Al Davis were alive today, nobody on this board would even be talking about Austin, because we all know where he would end up.

Not saying the bling is useless. Like you said, Bush and Spiller are very good players. I'm just saying, with the number of fast guys out there, speed is not something to fall in love with, but people do anyway. I would much rather have a slightly less fast guy who hangs on to the ball, runs the right plays, blocks downfield, etc. Granted Austin is a slot guy, but to me that just means he's not a first rounder unless your offense is predicated on having a slot guy with elite speed out there for 80+% of your offensive snaps. That's a pretty narrow job description. There's a few teams who need exactly that (like NE or one of the pussy arena-ball teams like NO or ATL), but as it stands the Ravens aren't one of them.

Only way we would take Austin is with a significant scheme change by Caldwell. IIRC, his slot WRs in Indy tended to be more the possession type.

Question: Have you watched Austin's tape? He's not a speed receiver ala Heyward Bey that just runs fast. Austin is a play maker that does everything. And I'm sure Caldwell can adjust his scheme to the players just like he did here. Caldwell isn't Cameron that runs what he wants regardless of the players.

[leachisabeast]

Thats simply not true at all. Need is HEAVILY factored into the draft board, and need is definately under consideration each tiem he is on the clock. Now, he doesn't walk into a draft thinking, I'm gonna draft LT in the first, DT in the second, ILB in the third, etc, but he has a list of positions and would like to draft the majority of them. His version of need may not be equal to ours either, as he is sometimes looking 2-3 years down the road when he considers need, but is often lookign at the upcoming year. What actually is fairly apparentto e, is that when Oz trades up, it isalmost exclusively at a position of need. Recent 1st round tradeups include Flacco, Ngata and Oher, all certainly immediate needs, meanwhile players like Pierce, Yanda and others attributed under the radar needs.

Where did I say that any of that wasn't true? I even said that needs actually affect the board, but when people say things like "WR in the first round wouldn't make sense because of defensive needs" that is totally against Ozzies philosophy on the draft. Ozzie will fill those defensive needs with starters in FA, and maybe go into the draft with one or two glaring holes.

[LouisianaRaven]

Did the Packers need Randall Cobb when they had Driver, Jennings, and Nelson?

No... but I bet they're glad they have him now.

Cobb was drafted at the end of rd 2. If Austin is as good as everyone says, then he won't be there in the 2nd rd.

[jonboy79]

I would love to see Austin in a Raven's uniform. However, I am also of the mindset that most teams wouldn't use a 1st round pick on a 5'8"/5'9" receiver. Think about it. When was the last time a 5'8"/5'9" slot receiver/kick returner went in round 1?


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