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  1. #3796
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    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)



    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...cut-ultimatum/

    Dan Connor could be cut from the Cowboys.

    I've always liked him. Solid linebacker. If the Ravens can't keep Ellerbe (or even if they do) Connor might be a nice player who likely wouldn't cost that much. He has experience in a 3-4 and 4-3.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  2. #3797

    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I'm not a Da'Rick Rogers fan, but those who are may be interested here.
    Could be this year's Mike Williams of the Bucs. I liked his potential a lot before I lost track of him when UT kicked him off the team.




  3. #3798
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    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Who said anything about comparing them because they have the same last name?

    I compared them because they share a LOT of the same attributes coming out of college. In fact, I'd argue Tavares was more physical and instinctive than anything I've seen from Zavier.

    If we were to draft him and only play him on passing downs, sure I'm down with that. But any idea of making him a 3 down guy...I don't see it.
    This kid is projected to go in the 3rd/4th rounds, you can't pick every down players with every pick. I understand 1st or 2nd round, or even early 3rd round is too high for him, but if he's going to be good for you in sub package plays, then you draft him. So many sub package players can come in and make key plays at key moments in games these days, everyone wants an every down player, the reality is you're not going to find them with most of your draft picks.

    I also think its way too premature to say he can't make it as a 3 down LB in the league when you have coaches who are determined to change that in a player. I remember Zach Brown who ran a ridiculous 4.5 (or something along those lines) last year, and went in the second round to Tennessee. I know a lot of people who said he wasn't an every down player, and couldn't play in run support to save his life, but he's gone on to have a really good start with a solid rookie year and became a starter in Tennesse.

    Now, I'm not saying Zavier Gooden is going to be like that, and I'm not even suggesting that we should even draft him, but guys like this have a lot of potential IMO.




  4. #3799

    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I'm not a Da'Rick Rogers fan, but those who are may be interested here.
    sounds like all the right answers, but that doesnt mean it was spoke genuinely.

    Personally id take a chance on him, I think he and Justin Hunter are going to be the better WRs that come out of this class.
    -JAB




  5. #3800

    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    This kid is projected to go in the 3rd/4th rounds, you can't pick every down players with every pick. I understand 1st or 2nd round, or even early 3rd round is too high for him, but if he's going to be good for you in sub package plays, then you draft him. So many sub package players can come in and make key plays at key moments in games these days, everyone wants an every down player, the reality is you're not going to find them with most of your draft picks.

    I also think its way too premature to say he can't make it as a 3 down LB in the league when you have coaches who are determined to change that in a player. I remember Zach Brown who ran a ridiculous 4.5 (or something along those lines) last year, and went in the second round to Tennessee. I know a lot of people who said he wasn't an every down player, and couldn't play in run support to save his life, but he's gone on to have a really good start with a solid rookie year and became a starter in Tennesse.

    Now, I'm not saying Zavier Gooden is going to be like that, and I'm not even suggesting that we should even draft him, but guys like this have a lot of potential IMO.
    Dude, it's my opinion based off of what I've seen.

    You seem to be annoyed I compared him to Tavares...well, that is what we all do...fans, media, teams...we compare guys to others who had similar traits that came out earlier. You insist on comparing Jesse Williams to Vince Wilfork which I don't agree with. Are we only allowed to compare guys to really good players?

    And of course I know that he could wind up being good...there are players picked in every round and undrafted guys that turn out to be good players. There are going to be players in this draft that you don't like that turn out to be good players. Should you never say you don't like a particular player in the draft because of that? I'm giving my opinion of him based on what I've seen. I can't do anything other than that and neither can you or anybody else.

    Sorry, a 3rd or 4th round pick is mo re valuable IMHO than what you are making it out to be. That 3rd or 4th round pick could be a more complete LB who doesn't run as fast, or a developmental LT, or a safety, or a guy like Da'rick Rogers...those are important picks. Hell, we blew a 3rd in 2008 on what I see "coming out of college"...which is all we have for guys who are in fact "coming out of college" on a similar player and he didn't give us anything.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  6. #3801
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    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Dude, it's my opinion based off of what I've seen.

    You seem to be annoyed I compared him to Tavares...well, that is what we all do...fans, media, teams...we compare guys to others who had similar traits that came out earlier. You insist on comparing Jesse Williams to Vince Wilfork which I don't agree with. Are we only allowed to compare guys to really good players?

    And of course I know that he could wind up being good...there are players picked in every round and undrafted guys that turn out to be good players. There are going to be players in this draft that you don't like that turn out to be good players. Should you never say you don't like a particular player in the draft because of that? I'm giving my opinion of him based on what I've seen. I can't do anything other than that and neither can you or anybody else.

    Sorry, a 3rd or 4th round pick is mo re valuable IMHO than what you are making it out to be. That 3rd or 4th round pick could be a more complete LB who doesn't run as fast, or a developmental LT, or a safety, or a guy like Da'rick Rogers...those are important picks. Hell, we blew a 3rd in 2008 on what I see "coming out of college"...which is all we have for guys who are in fact "coming out of college" on a similar player and he didn't give us anything.
    I don't see how I expressed anger in any of my posts.

    Btw if you have such high expectations on 3rd/4th round picks, why don't you go look up the % of those players who ever actually make it in the NFL.




  7. #3802

    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    sounds like all the right answers, but that doesnt mean it was spoke genuinely.

    Personally id take a chance on him, I think he and Justin Hunter are going to be the better WRs that come out of this class.
    I put him in the Keenan Allen camp. Big athletes playing receiver. To me, he never jumps out on film. Of course, he may have improved a good deal from 2011-2012. The only public tape that I am aware of on Rogers is vs. Oregon and I believe that was very early in the season.
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 02-28-2013 at 11:18 AM.




  8. #3803

    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I don't see how I expressed anger in any of my posts.

    Btw if you have such high expectations on 3rd/4th round picks, why don't you go look up the % of those players who ever actually make it in the NFL.
    I didn't say anger.

    I said annoyed. You can be annoyed without being upset or pissed.

    Anyway, about the 3rd and 4th round stuff...let's see how good this team would have been without Marshal Yanda, or Bernard Pierce, or Ladarius Webb. Those are important picks.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  9. #3804
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    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I didn't say anger.

    I said annoyed. You can be annoyed without being upset or pissed.

    Anyway, about the 3rd and 4th round stuff...let's see how good this team would have been without Marshal Yanda, or Bernard Pierce, or Ladarius Webb. Those are important picks.
    Who else has stood out in the third round of the 2007 NFL draft then? Jacoby Jones was a serviceable depth receiver and good KR in Houston, and only really became something when he signed with the Ravens this season. To me, the 3rd round or 4th round is all about pissing in the wind with picks on players you think has a lot of potential, that is Zavier Gooden all over IMO. When you get past the 2nd round, it really is even more of a crap shoot.

    I wasn't even annoyed btw, I'm just trying to defend poor old Zavier Gooden here because people think he's the next Tavares Gooden before he's even been given a shot!




  10. #3805
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    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I put him in the Keenan Allen camp. Big athletes playing receiver. To me, he never jumps out on film. Of course, he may have improved a good deal from 2011-2012.
    From what I've seen of Rogers makes me believe that he is a MUCH more polished player than Keenan Allen.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  11. #3806

    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    From Roto:

    ESPN's Adam Schefter says Notre Dame ILB Manti Te'o will not make it out of the first-round.

    This is a definitive statement from one of the most respected NFL insiders, so we will heed his advice moving forward. The most logical destinations are the Broncos at No. 28, the Falcons at No. 30, and the Ravens at No. 32. Te'o's 4.82 forty is being overblown, since he was never an overly athletic player on the field. He wins with play recognition and instincts. Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
    So I'm pretty sure that this means that some team has clearly said to Schefter, "...yes, that's right, we will definitely select Te'o if he's on the board when we pick."; or words to that effect. We usually don't say a damn thing to anyone, so I would suspect HOU or ATL. I think DEN values a DB in the first.
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 02-28-2013 at 11:34 AM.




  12. #3807
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    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Btw, from this particular game Gooden was taking on blocks nicely and looked like a force in run defense.





  13. #3808

    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Who else has stood out in the third round of the 2007 NFL draft then? Jacoby Jones was a serviceable depth receiver and good KR in Houston, and only really became something when he signed with the Ravens this season. To me, the 3rd round or 4th round is all about pissing in the wind with picks on players you think has a lot of potential, that is Zavier Gooden all over IMO. When you get past the 2nd round, it really is even more of a crap shoot.

    I wasn't even annoyed btw, I'm just trying to defend poor old Zavier Gooden here because people think he's the next Tavares Gooden before he's even been given a shot!
    Totally disagree with your stance on 3rd round picks...it's not about who stands out to fans, it's that there are in fact really good players available in those rounds...and every draft virtually there are pro bowl level players being picked in those rounds. That's a fact.

    And who cares if I think Zavier Gooden reminds people of Tavares Gooden? I never said "he will be the next Tavares Gooden". I said he "reminds" me of Tavares Gooden while making my bigger point about his lack of physicality and significant lack of football IQ...from what I've seen.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  14. #3809
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    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Totally disagree with your stance on 3rd round picks...it's not about who stands out to fans, it's that there are in fact really good players available in those rounds...and every draft virtually there are pro bowl level players being picked in those rounds. That's a fact.

    And who cares if I think Zavier Gooden reminds people of Tavares Gooden? I never said "he will be the next Tavares Gooden". I said he "reminds" me of Tavares Gooden while making my bigger point about his lack of physicality and significant lack of football IQ...from what I've seen.
    Yeah one pro bowler out of 32 nearly every time, hence the term "crap shoot". We can agree to disagree, but I would bet a lot on Gooden going in the 3rd round or earlier.

    He looked pretty physical against Goergia.




  15. #3810

    Re: Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Btw, from this particular game Gooden was taking on blocks nicely and looked like a force in run defense.

    FWIW...we've all seen most of the youtube vids of these guys...so I've definately seen this one.

    If you think that video supports the idea that he takes on blocks well and looks like a force in the run game...well, I don't know what to say. The first half he was getting blown off the ball and making tackles (or being near the pile) 5-10 yards down the field. The second half of it was better, but he still was getting sealed off and really only made 2 "solo" tackles...one he did a nice job of fighting off the TE on the outside, and the other he wasn't blocked at all.

    That hardly changes my opinion and in fact, that vid is part of what helped me form my initial opinion of him.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




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