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  1. #2089

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post



    Or, see what Sebastian Vollmer would come here for.
    Vollmer > Kruger + Ellerbe?
    or
    Vollmer > Kruger or Ellerbe?

    This assumes we cannot reasonably expect to resign Ed and Cary, so they don't factor in, and only Kruger or Ellerbe are the "tough" decisions. Or is that the wrong way to look at the matter?
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 02-06-2013 at 11:02 AM.




  2. #2090

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    That's exactly why you don't trade up for him despite the need. I'd rather try and pay McKinnie then spend multiple picks to get up to where it would take to draft Johnson.


    Totally agree.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  3. #2091

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I keep saying it and I won't stop saying it until people get it into their heads. This team's biggest need BY FAR is free safety. Now, if they re-sign Ed Reed that will certainly change. But unless and until they do that the huge glaring need on this team is at the free safety position.

    That is the ONE position they literally have no one with any NFL experience as an option on the roster. They could easily shuffle the OL again and put Oher at LT, which would absolutely not be optimal, but the team could do it. IMO the really crucial area on the OL was solidifying the interior, which they've done by moving KO to LG. With more quick-hitting routes and space for Flacco to step up into the offense could get by without elite-level protection from the tackles in all likelihood.

    ILB? They have McClain coming back and Bynes, McClellan, and Ayanbadejo all have experience and some degree of talent. They have depth at the position no matter what happens with Ellerbe or the draft. This is getting overrated as an immediate need IMO.

    DE/OLB? Suggs will be healthier next year, Upshaw will continue to grow, and they have depth/project guys they like in Hamilton and McAdoo.

    DL? Cody was the team's biggest disappointment this year, but he played a little better in the playoffs and is still a fairly young player. They have Art Jones, McPhee, and Tyson as young players who they like a lot, and Ngata should also be healthier next year.

    WR? They need to grow and get younger long-term but even if one of Boldin or Jacoby is cut loose they're probably okay at the position for another year. Same for TE.

    I just don't think it's even questionable at this point that FS is the most concerning area on this team. At least they have options under contract at every other position. They have NOTHING at FS unless they sign Ed Reed which might not happen, and to make it even worse our defensive scheme puts a ton of pressure on the deep safety to cover up weaknesses elsewhere. There's no way Christian Thompson is ready to step up and be even half of what Ed Reed was at his worst.

    Sorry, I don't agree.

    Christian Thompson may not be as good at FS as Oher is at LT,but the positional value is FAR lower, and oesn't require nearly as rare an athlete. LT is our biggest need, no matter what we do(Reed, Big Mac). It's just how i see it.




  4. #2092
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    GOTA brings up a good point about Lane Johnson, he is NOT worth trading 15 spots for, can people please quit it with that? It aint happening, Ozzie is going to try and re-sign McKinnie, and we'll get a developmental player to take over eventually, ala Chris Faulk or Quessenberry in the 3rd round or something.

    When I look at Lane Johnson, I see a hard working version but slightly smaller version of Mike Adams who nobody wanted to trade up for last year, he dropped late into the second round because of character concerns. The value is just not there.




  5. #2093
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Vollmer > Kruger + Ellerbe?
    or
    Vollmer > Kruger or Ellerbe?

    This assumes we cannot reasonably expect to resign Ed and Cary, so they don't factor in, and only Kruger or Ellerbe are the "tough" decisions. Or is that the wrong way to look at the matter?
    No. I think that is a good way to look at it.

    It just really depends on what kind of "magic" they are able to work with some current salaries.

    I will say that the fact that the Ravens won the SB and have Flacco is going to make them a lot more desirable for some free agents.
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  6. #2094
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Sorry, I don't agree.

    Christian Thompson may not be as good at FS as Oher is at LT,but the positional value is FAR lower, and oesn't require nearly as rare an athlete. LT is our biggest need, no matter what we do(Reed, Big Mac). It's just how i see it.
    Lane Johnson isn't even anywhere near McKinnie's level, he isn't worth trading up that far for. Its not going to happen.




  7. #2095
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    No. I think that is a good way to look at it.

    It just really depends on what kind of "magic" they are able to work with some current salaries.

    I will say that the fact that the Ravens won the SB and have Flacco is going to make them a lot more desirable for some free agents.
    I like Vollmer too, but I think he'll want to sign for a Eric Winston type deal, which is certainly out of our range. I'd rather re-sign Ellerbe and McKinnie than just a very good right tackle because we hope he can play left tackle.




  8. #2096

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    A few things...

    1. We don't know if McClain is coming back. There have been a few rumors saying that he may not be able to come back.

    2. I definitely agree with you that FS is a major hole. Be it Ed Reed, Kenny Phillips, or using a high draft pick on someone...this position needs filled. We dont know what Christian Thompson can bring to the table, but not having any experience at all and being a somewhat raw player to begin with shouldn't give anyone warm and fuzzies.

    3. I don't know how you can say that ILB need is overrated. I completely disagree. Even if Ellerbe comes back, the Ravens don't have anyone who can cover the middle of the field. I'm not saying that they'll find that in another ILB in the draft, but getting speed at ILB should be a major goal IMO. They don't necessarily have to spend a high draft pick on that either, but they really need to get speed at ILB. There just isn't anyone on the team who can drop into coverage well at all. Furthermore, Ellerbe seems to have a game or two each season where he gets hurt and misses some time, so depth is a potential issue as well. Especially if McClain can't come back.
    Where are these McClain rumors coming from? He's been giving interviews over the past few days and saying he's doing fine and will be ready for minicamps... on January 2nd he said he felt good enough to tackle somebody right then and there. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...eason-workouts

    Obviously he's going to give a rosy picture of his recovery, but I have literally not seen a single source other than someone on this message board (Boulderraven perhaps?) who said his injury might be "career threatening." Doesn't sound like reliable info to me at all.

    And I didn't say ILB wasn't a need... but it's getting overrated as being our TOP need. We just won the Super Bowl with our current ILB corps and a couple of young guys picked up experience along the way. I don't doubt they'll draft an ILB, but in the hierarchy of overall needs how can it be higher than FS or LT? We literally don't have anyone under contract next year who has ever played a snap at FS. We only have Michael Oher as an LT option. Those are the real bare-bones positions moreso than ILB where we know McClain has played well in the past and there are several other guys with experience.




  9. #2097

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Where are these McClain rumors coming from? He's been giving interviews over the past few days and saying he's doing fine and will be ready for minicamps... on January 2nd he said he felt good enough to tackle somebody right then and there. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...eason-workouts

    Obviously he's going to give a rosy picture of his recovery, but I have literally not seen a single source other than someone on this message board (Boulderraven perhaps?) who said his injury might be "career threatening." Doesn't sound like reliable info to me at all.

    And I didn't say ILB wasn't a need... but it's getting overrated as being our TOP need. We just won the Super Bowl with our current ILB corps and a couple of young guys picked up experience along the way. I don't doubt they'll draft an ILB, but in the hierarchy of overall needs how can it be higher than FS or LT? We literally don't have anyone under contract next year who has ever played a snap at FS. We only have Michael Oher as an LT option. Those are the real bare-bones positions moreso than ILB where we know McClain has played well in the past and there are several other guys with experience.
    I know I heard Harbaugh say it in one of his interviews but no, I can't get a link for it...I just looked.

    But the fact that his injury was basically a spinal cord concussion...it's a very serious injury.

    The chances are obviously much better that he will play again, but it's nothing to sneeze at and just assume he will even be back at his mediocre level of play.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  10. #2098

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Just my $.02...

    ILB need > FS need

    I think our starting FS will be acquired/determined this summer no matter who we draft. Not to say that guy will start all 16, but as much as I like Elam, I'd be greatly concerned with any 2013 FS being our day 1 starter.




  11. #2099
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Just my $.02...

    ILB need > FS need

    I think our starting FS will be acquired/determined this summer no matter who we draft. Not to say that guy will start all 16, but as much as I like Elam, I'd be greatly concerned with any 2013 FS being our day 1 starter.
    Yeah I agree with this. I just have a feeling that if we don't sign Reed, which is up in the air to say the least, Ozzie will sign a safety, they come cheap, it wont be Goldson (overrated anyway, shit in coverage) but it will be a decent player. Besides, Christian Thompson may be better than everyone thinks, nobody really knows anything about Thompson, his tape is very limited.

    ILB is a huge need IMO, simply because we have ZERO athletic coverage LB's on the roster, we need more speed there. We need more than a defense built to stop the Steelers in todays NFL, we are now competing with the likes of the Patriots, and the Broncos and need to defend the pass better over the middle.




  12. #2100
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Sorry, I don't agree.

    Christian Thompson may not be as good at FS as Oher is at LT,but the positional value is FAR lower, and oesn't require nearly as rare an athlete. LT is our biggest need, no matter what we do(Reed, Big Mac). It's just how i see it.
    If we get a LT that can play better than Oher, our O-Line is immediately upgraded. Oher is a better RT than LT and KO is a better LG than RT. I really want to move on from McKinnie though, I don't know how much effort/gas he has left in the tank.




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