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  1. #2071

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread



    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Even Allen is not quite polished enough for me. The only guy I could see us taking is Austin, and that's only IF...we think he's freakish enough player/athlete AND IF we think there's a place for him in our offense.

    Otherwise, definitely no WR in the 1st is worthy b/c even if there is a run on them then that means that a valuable DT, ILB or OLB/DE has been in effect pushed down to 32...and we would take that guy instead
    I'm actually very low on Keenan Allen. I don't see ANYTHING really impressive to his game on tape outside of some YAC ability. He plays very small and lacks physicality for 6'3 210 or whatever he's listed at. His speed is also very modest and he is a bad route runner at this point in his career. I wouldn't draft him if he were available at #32 honestly.

    At the 32nd pick you really are not going to get a knockout guy, frankly. If a player carrying a top 10 grade falls into the 20's, somebody is going to scoop him up before he gets to 32 in all likelihood. What's worse is that a lot of teams share our primary needs at OT, FS, ILB, and DT... and of that group, the class is only really strong at DT.

    There will not be an OT worth taking. No FS will fall past San Francisco, so Matt Elam is out of the picture. Manti Te'o and Kevin Minter will both be gone. The jury is still out on DT; will the Ravens stick to their 3-4 with 3 big fatties on the DL? If so, guys like Kawann Short aren't scheme fits, as much as I'd like to see the Ravens target a quick-twitch 3-tech.

    I really think you're looking at a scenario at #32 where there's no obvious BPA that fits a need. I think the Ravens' 1st round pick will be an "out of left field" type of pick, possibly at a position we don't even feel has a need at this point. It could be anything other than QB or RB, IMO.

    Somebody mentioned Walterfootball earlier and although his mock still has a lot of bad picks for the Ravens, I did like David Amerson in the 2nd. I haven't really watched too much tape on him but from what I've seen and read he has a TON of upside as a centerfield free safety. That would be a very Ravens-like move, but the jury is out on if he can transition to FS quickly enough to challenge for a day 1 starting spot.




  2. #2072
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I'm actually very low on Keenan Allen. I don't see ANYTHING really impressive to his game on tape outside of some YAC ability. He plays very small and lacks physicality for 6'3 210 or whatever he's listed at. His speed is also very modest and he is a bad route runner at this point in his career. I wouldn't draft him if he were available at #32 honestly.

    At the 32nd pick you really are not going to get a knockout guy, frankly. If a player carrying a top 10 grade falls into the 20's, somebody is going to scoop him up before he gets to 32 in all likelihood. What's worse is that a lot of teams share our primary needs at OT, FS, ILB, and DT... and of that group, the class is only really strong at DT.

    There will not be an OT worth taking. No FS will fall past San Francisco, so Matt Elam is out of the picture. Manti Te'o and Kevin Minter will both be gone. The jury is still out on DT; will the Ravens stick to their 3-4 with 3 big fatties on the DL? If so, guys like Kawann Short aren't scheme fits, as much as I'd like to see the Ravens target a quick-twitch 3-tech.

    I really think you're looking at a scenario at #32 where there's no obvious BPA that fits a need. I think the Ravens' 1st round pick will be an "out of left field" type of pick, possibly at a position we don't even feel has a need at this point. It could be anything other than QB or RB, IMO.

    Somebody mentioned Walterfootball earlier and although his mock still has a lot of bad picks for the Ravens, I did like David Amerson in the 2nd. I haven't really watched too much tape on him but from what I've seen and read he has a TON of upside as a centerfield free safety. That would be a very Ravens-like move, but the jury is out on if he can transition to FS quickly enough to challenge for a day 1 starting spot.
    Amerson in the 2nd is actually why I said that I'd be ok with that mock up. I like Hopkins a lot, but I would really rather steer clear of a 1st round WR in this draft class.

    Amerson, however, I like a lot. He has a bit of a down year, but last season that guy was a force as a cornerback. At that point, I really thought he'd be a top 10 pick. His size (6'3" 195-200lbs), speed, and ball skills would make him a hell of a player in the secondary.

    His biggest downside is he tends to play stiff from time to time and he doesn't have that "hip swivel" you look for in top flight cornerbacks. Still, he can jam at the LOS really well too. So, that's a plus.

    I think Amerson would be a solid cover safety.
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  3. #2073
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Yeah Amerson can't play corner in the NFL, I really doubt he can. He would make a very very good center fielder though, he has ball skills, very tall and rangy too.




  4. #2074
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    We have 11 picks this year. It's a good a time as any to trade up and get Lane Johnson at 15-20ish.
    I'm all for that. What would it really cost us to move up from 16 to 32 though? Here is my fear with doing that though. Right now, assuming Boldin and/or Jones is back, we really only have one pressing need on offense (LT). We also need 1-2 O-line depth picks and a 3rd TE, but neither is a huge priority.

    Where we need a lot of help/depth is on defense, particularly if we lose Kruger/Ellerbe/Reed. If we trade up to get Lane Johnson, I would guess we'd have to package our 2nd rounder to do it, right? Now we only have one pick in the first 94 and guys like Eric Reid/Elam/Vaccaro aren't realistic targets. We'd have to fill our holes with late 3rd rounders and 4th rounders, etc.




  5. #2075
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    I'm all for that. What would it really cost us to move up from 16 to 32 though? Here is my fear with doing that though. Right now, assuming Boldin and/or Jones is back, we really only have one pressing need on offense (LT). We also need 1-2 O-line depth picks and a 3rd TE, but neither is a huge priority.

    Where we need a lot of help/depth is on defense, particularly if we lose Kruger/Ellerbe/Reed. If we trade up to get Lane Johnson, I would guess we'd have to package our 2nd rounder to do it, right? Now we only have one pick in the first 94 and guys like Eric Reid/Elam/Vaccaro aren't realistic targets. We'd have to fill our holes with late 3rd rounders and 4th rounders, etc.
    Exactly.

    And the Ravens don't have a ton of cap space to work with, so targeting a lot of starting-caliber free agents is likely out of the question.
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  6. #2076

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    I'm all for that. What would it really cost us to move up from 16 to 32 though? Here is my fear with doing that though. Right now, assuming Boldin and/or Jones is back, we really only have one pressing need on offense (LT). We also need 1-2 O-line depth picks and a 3rd TE, but neither is a huge priority.

    Where we need a lot of help/depth is on defense, particularly if we lose Kruger/Ellerbe/Reed. If we trade up to get Lane Johnson, I would guess we'd have to package our 2nd rounder to do it, right? Now we only have one pick in the first 94 and guys like Eric Reid/Elam/Vaccaro aren't realistic targets. We'd have to fill our holes with late 3rd rounders and 4th rounders, etc.
    I keep saying it and I won't stop saying it until people get it into their heads. This team's biggest need BY FAR is free safety. Now, if they re-sign Ed Reed that will certainly change. But unless and until they do that the huge glaring need on this team is at the free safety position.

    That is the ONE position they literally have no one with any NFL experience as an option on the roster. They could easily shuffle the OL again and put Oher at LT, which would absolutely not be optimal, but the team could do it. IMO the really crucial area on the OL was solidifying the interior, which they've done by moving KO to LG. With more quick-hitting routes and space for Flacco to step up into the offense could get by without elite-level protection from the tackles in all likelihood.

    ILB? They have McClain coming back and Bynes, McClellan, and Ayanbadejo all have experience and some degree of talent. They have depth at the position no matter what happens with Ellerbe or the draft. This is getting overrated as an immediate need IMO.

    DE/OLB? Suggs will be healthier next year, Upshaw will continue to grow, and they have depth/project guys they like in Hamilton and McAdoo.

    DL? Cody was the team's biggest disappointment this year, but he played a little better in the playoffs and is still a fairly young player. They have Art Jones, McPhee, and Tyson as young players who they like a lot, and Ngata should also be healthier next year.

    WR? They need to grow and get younger long-term but even if one of Boldin or Jacoby is cut loose they're probably okay at the position for another year. Same for TE.

    I just don't think it's even questionable at this point that FS is the most concerning area on this team. At least they have options under contract at every other position. They have NOTHING at FS unless they sign Ed Reed which might not happen, and to make it even worse our defensive scheme puts a ton of pressure on the deep safety to cover up weaknesses elsewhere. There's no way Christian Thompson is ready to step up and be even half of what Ed Reed was at his worst.




  7. #2077

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Yeah Amerson can't play corner in the NFL, I really doubt he can. He would make a very very good center fielder though, he has ball skills, very tall and rangy too.
    I totally agree...I like Amerson and would love to have him in the second, but only as a safety.

    He is a terrific ball hawk and has very, very good ball skills.

    But in virtually ever game I saw this year, he was constantly...constantly getting beat like a drum when he had to play man on quicker WR's. I have very little confidence that he can be a good corner in the NFL...but I think he'd be a very good safety.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #2078

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Drafting DeAngelo Hopkins would be like drafting Barret Jones IMO, both good players, may even be the BPA at 32, but we are stacked at wide out. Better value in later rounds IMO, especially if there is a speedy LB waiting there at 32 which is a much bigger need, or a pass rushing 5 tech DE, or a safety etc etc....

    I'm all for BPA, but BPA in Ozzies mind doesn't always mean the absolute BPA, despite what people like to think. Needs do play a big role in the draft too.
    Yup. Needs + what we think other teams will do play a big part. The latter is largely why we move around so much.
    If we break with Boldin, (which I think is unlikely) then I think we manuever to take a WR early. Otherwise, I don't think we'll grab one before #63.




  9. #2079
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I keep saying it and I won't stop saying it until people get it into their heads. This team's biggest need BY FAR is free safety. Now, if they re-sign Ed Reed that will certainly change. But unless and until they do that the huge glaring need on this team is at the free safety position.

    That is the ONE position they literally have no one with any NFL experience as an option on the roster. They could easily shuffle the OL again and put Oher at LT, which would absolutely not be optimal, but the team could do it. IMO the really crucial area on the OL was solidifying the interior, which they've done by moving KO to LG. With more quick-hitting routes and space for Flacco to step up into the offense could get by without elite-level protection from the tackles in all likelihood.

    ILB? They have McClain coming back and Bynes, McClellan, and Ayanbadejo all have experience and some degree of talent. They have depth at the position no matter what happens with Ellerbe or the draft. This is getting overrated as an immediate need IMO.

    DE/OLB? Suggs will be healthier next year, Upshaw will continue to grow, and they have depth/project guys they like in Hamilton and McAdoo.

    DL? Cody was the team's biggest disappointment this year, but he played a little better in the playoffs and is still a fairly young player. They have Art Jones, McPhee, and Tyson as young players who they like a lot, and Ngata should also be healthier next year.

    WR? They need to grow and get younger long-term but even if one of Boldin or Jacoby is cut loose they're probably okay at the position for another year. Same for TE.

    I just don't think it's even questionable at this point that FS is the most concerning area on this team. At least they have options under contract at every other position. They have NOTHING at FS unless they sign Ed Reed which might not happen, and to make it even worse our defensive scheme puts a ton of pressure on the deep safety to cover up weaknesses elsewhere. There's no way Christian Thompson is ready to step up and be even half of what Ed Reed was at his worst.
    100% agree with this. Hopefully we get Reed back on a reasonable deal.




  10. #2080
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post

    ILB? They have McClain coming back and Bynes, McClellan, and Ayanbadejo all have experience and some degree of talent. They have depth at the position no matter what happens with Ellerbe or the draft. This is getting overrated as an immediate need IMO.
    A few things...

    1. We don't know if McClain is coming back. There have been a few rumors saying that he may not be able to come back.

    2. I definitely agree with you that FS is a major hole. Be it Ed Reed, Kenny Phillips, or using a high draft pick on someone...this position needs filled. We dont know what Christian Thompson can bring to the table, but not having any experience at all and being a somewhat raw player to begin with shouldn't give anyone warm and fuzzies.

    3. I don't know how you can say that ILB need is overrated. I completely disagree. Even if Ellerbe comes back, the Ravens don't have anyone who can cover the middle of the field. I'm not saying that they'll find that in another ILB in the draft, but getting speed at ILB should be a major goal IMO. They don't necessarily have to spend a high draft pick on that either, but they really need to get speed at ILB. There just isn't anyone on the team who can drop into coverage well at all. Furthermore, Ellerbe seems to have a game or two each season where he gets hurt and misses some time, so depth is a potential issue as well. Especially if McClain can't come back.
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  11. #2081

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I'm all for BPA, but BPA in Ozzies mind doesn't always mean the absolute BPA, despite what people like to think. Needs do play a big role in the draft too.
    if there isnt a LB on the same tier as those guys, hell take the higher tier position thats not a need. It may not always be BPA in the fans eyes but its always BPA with need being the deciding factor between similar talents. He will not reach for a need, he may trade down for one but even then i believe hes only done such when theres multiple players still available in the tier theyd be drafting in anyway. meaning they have a OL WR and LB rated the same, youll likely get that LB, but if they have it OL WR and a LB on a lower tier, its really only a choice between the first two or trading back in ozzies mind. "stick to the board".
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  12. #2082
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Does anyone think that Lane Johnson is really that much better a prospect than KO? If Taylor Lewan and Jake Matthews were in this draft I'm not sure Johnson ends up as a 1st round pick. If he's at the bottom of the round I'd be very interested but trading up sounds very expensive for level of prospect you're getting.
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  13. #2083
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    There are going to be a lot of opportunities for the Ravens to trade down a few picks for someone who wants to move up and take a QB or RB.
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  14. #2084
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Does anyone think that Lane Johnson is really that much better a prospect than KO? If Taylor Lewan and Jake Matthews were in this draft I'm not sure Johnson ends up as a 1st round pick. If he's at the bottom of the round I'd be very interested but trading up sounds very expensive for level of prospect you're getting.
    I said that a few posts ago. At best, Johnson would be the 5th best tackle prospect if Lewan and Matthews were coming out.

    That said, I think Johnson has some nice skills that could make him a decent candidate at LT. He's more of a finesse, pass blocker, but he's not a terrible run blocker either.

    It is possible that even with Lewan and Matthews coming out he could have leapfrogged one of them, but I doubt it.

    IMO, this is a simple case of supple and demand.
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  15. #2085

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Unbelievably DET is yet again in need of a WR and may want to move up if there's a run on WRs (which I don't anticipate).




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