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  1. #1777

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread



    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I think the bigger bodied WRs will all stack up ahead of Wheaton. Also, a team signing Wallace, Bowe and maybe even Welker and Jennings probably won't take a WR in the 1st or 2nd. NE will be an exception even if they actually resign Welker...they could use some youth at WR.

    Wheaton will rise a bit if he goes sub 4.4 (very possible) next month but I still see him in the 3rd.
    All the teams are looking for the next 6'4, 6'5 sort of WR. AJ Green, Julio Jones, Calvin, Andre, etc... I believe the only sub-6'0 WRs to go in the first round over the last few years were Percy Harvin (who is one of the best WRs in the NFL) and Kendall Wright (who was a bit of a reach at #22 but had staggering college production). I agree with you that smaller WRs are going to get devalued. I could easily see Justin Hunter, Cordarelle Patterson, Keenan Allen, and Terrance Williams all going in the 1st while the 6'0 and under guys fall way down.

    And you know what? That suits me just fine. Jim Caldwell's Colts NEVER had a WR over 6'0. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were both 6'0 and fairly slim guys. The offense wasn't built around them outmuscling or outjumping guys, it was built around precision route running and sharp breaks. As long as a 6'0 and under guy can get off a bigger CB's jam at the line and plays bigger than his size he doesn't need to hit a certain benchmark for size or weight.

    When I scout WRs the top two characteristics I look for are route running and quickness out of their breaks. In those respects, my top guys in this class are DeAndre Hopkins, Stedman Bailey, Markus Wheaton, and Quinton Patton. I think all of them would fit our offense well especially if we continue to trend more towards the Tom Moore style offense.




  2. #1778
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    There are no AJ Greens in this draft. Infact this draft is really lacking in talent in almost every position.

    QBs- Attorcious.
    RBs- Poor.
    OL- Pretty stacked for guards, but good centers and tackles are lacking.
    WR- Average pool at best.
    TE- Probably the best offensive position in this class.

    DTs- Pretty decent. More so for the smaller quick twitch DTs, ala Sheriff Floyd, Sheldon Richardson, Kawann Shorts (Geno Atkin type DTs). Would be happy with one of them.
    DEs- Nobody really stands out to me here, even Damontre Moore has become overrated IMO.
    LBs- I'd say solid, would have said very good if Manti Teo didn't get shown up on national TV, and Jarvis Jones has had some issues leading up to the draft.
    CBs- Average
    Safeties- Pretty good, and certainly a lot better than last years crop of talent.
    Last edited by leachisabeast; 01-30-2013 at 09:47 AM.




  3. #1779

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    All the teams are looking for the next 6'4, 6'5 sort of WR. AJ Green, Julio Jones, Calvin, Andre, etc... I believe the only sub-6'0 WRs to go in the first round over the last few years were Percy Harvin (who is one of the best WRs in the NFL) and Kendall Wright (who was a bit of a reach at #22 but had staggering college production). I agree with you that smaller WRs are going to get devalued. I could easily see Justin Hunter, Cordarelle Patterson, Keenan Allen, and Terrance Williams all going in the 1st while the 6'0 and under guys fall way down.

    And you know what? That suits me just fine. Jim Caldwell's Colts NEVER had a WR over 6'0. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were both 6'0 and fairly slim guys. The offense wasn't built around them outmuscling or outjumping guys, it was built around precision route running and sharp breaks. As long as a 6'0 and under guy can get off a bigger CB's jam at the line and plays bigger than his size he doesn't need to hit a certain benchmark for size or weight.

    When I scout WRs the top two characteristics I look for are route running and quickness out of their breaks. In those respects, my top guys in this class are DeAndre Hopkins, Stedman Bailey, Markus Wheaton, and Quinton Patton. I think all of them would fit our offense well especially if we continue to trend more towards the Tom Moore style offense.
    I completely agree.

    As far as outjumping is concerned, Boldin combined with a 34" vertical and still gets up pretty well as we've seen. Torrey combined with a 41" vertical, and we have Streeter on the shelf with a 33" vertical at 6'5", and one good OS of training could get him north of 36-37".

    I think going in the direction of acquiring a quick, route runner with good hands (if this is indeed what we are doing) is the perfect move for us right now...especially if Boldin remains on the roster for 2013. But even he moves on or is moved on, I think any of the guys that you and I have listed can operate very well in the slot.
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 01-30-2013 at 10:56 AM.




  4. #1780
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    There are no AJ Greens in this draft. Infact this draft is really lacking in talent in almost every position.

    QBs- Attorcious.
    RBs- Poor.
    OL- Pretty stacked for guards, but good centers and tackles are lacking.
    WR- Average pool at best.
    TE- Probably the best offensive position in this class.

    DTs- Pretty decent. More so for the smaller quick twitch DTs, ala Sheriff Floyd, Sheldon Richardson, Kawann Shorts (Geno Atkin type DTs). Would be happy with one of them.
    DEs- Nobody really stands out to me here, even Damontre Moore has become overrated IMO.
    LBs- I'd say solid, would have said very good if Manti Teo didn't get shown up on national TV, and Jarvis Jones has had some issues leading up to the draft.
    CBs- Average
    Safeties- Pretty good, and certainly a lot better than last years crop of talent.
    It's a good year to be picking at the bottom of the draft.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  5. #1781

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    There are no AJ Greens in this draft. Infact this draft is really lacking in talent in almost every position.

    QBs- Attorcious.
    RBs- Poor.
    OL- Pretty stacked for guards, but good centers and tackles are lacking.
    WR- Average pool at best.
    TE- Probably the best offensive position in this class.

    DTs- Pretty decent. More so for the smaller quick twitch DTs, ala Sheriff Floyd, Sheldon Richardson, Kawann Shorts (Geno Atkin type DTs). Would be happy with one of them.
    DEs- Nobody really stands out to me here, even Damontre Moore has become overrated IMO.
    LBs- I'd say solid, would have said very good if Manti Teo didn't get shown up on national TV, and Jarvis Jones has had some issues leading up to the draft.
    CBs- Average
    Safeties- Pretty good, and certainly a lot better than last years crop of talent.
    I agree, this is not a good draft for high quality talent.

    IMHO, it's really one of the weakest in the last 6 or 7 years...just looking at it going in.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  6. #1782

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I agree, this is not a good draft for high quality talent.

    IMHO, it's really one of the weakest in the last 6 or 7 years...just looking at it going in.
    People said last year's draft was one of the weakest in memory as well, yet look at how many rookies lit up the NFL out of that supposedly "weak" class. There's no prospect who's felt to be similar to AJ Green RIGHT NOW, certainly, but what difference does that make? Green isn't in this draft. The point I was trying to make earlier is that teams will try to find the NEXT AJ Green, and they will. It just might not be a prospect with all the hype that Green had.

    People said the 2010 draft was one of the strongest of all time, yet go back and look at the first 2 rounds and see how many players busted. Suh and McCoy were both seen as future HOFers, neither one of them lived up to their hype. Sam Bradford is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. Eric Berry (the next Ed Reed) has underwhelmed. Rolando McClain might be out of football next year. And so on and so on...

    The quality of a given draft is always relative and can't really be assessed a lot of the time until several years down the road. You can always say "so and so isn't worthy of a top 10 pick," but if a given player is one of the 10 best talents in the class then why the hell not?

    With the rookie wage scale most of the downside of missing on a pick is now pretty much gone. Just pick the best player available that makes sense for your team, upgrade your overall talent level whenever possible, and you'll do fine.




  7. #1783

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I have been high on Wheaton pretty much all season. Really nice precise route runner, solid hands, deceptively quick, nice moves in space.

    He needs to put on some weight...he's about 6' to 6'1" and about 185lbs, so I'd like to see him bump up into the 190's. I think that would help him beat press coverage a bit better. Still though, the upside is there.

    I'd rather have Patton, but Wheaton would be pretty sweet too.
    Yea i was late to the game on Wheaton, he's really impressive for all the reasons you named. He has a savvy to his game that guys that explosive usually dont have early on. I too am a Patton fan as well, reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think regardless of where he goes he's gonna take someone's spot in the 3 wide package.




  8. #1784

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Touching on a previous thought about this being a weak draft does that put more pressure on us re-signing Mckinnie. Looking at the LT's in the senior bowl the only ones i see being ready to play at least an average LT in 2013 may be all gone before 32.




  9. #1785
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    People said last year's draft was one of the weakest in memory as well, yet look at how many rookies lit up the NFL out of that supposedly "weak" class. There's no prospect who's felt to be similar to AJ Green RIGHT NOW, certainly, but what difference does that make? Green isn't in this draft. The point I was trying to make earlier is that teams will try to find the NEXT AJ Green, and they will. It just might not be a prospect with all the hype that Green had.

    People said the 2010 draft was one of the strongest of all time, yet go back and look at the first 2 rounds and see how many players busted. Suh and McCoy were both seen as future HOFers, neither one of them lived up to their hype. Sam Bradford is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. Eric Berry (the next Ed Reed) has underwhelmed. Rolando McClain might be out of football next year. And so on and so on...

    The quality of a given draft is always relative and can't really be assessed a lot of the time until several years down the road. You can always say "so and so isn't worthy of a top 10 pick," but if a given player is one of the 10 best talents in the class then why the hell not?

    With the rookie wage scale most of the downside of missing on a pick is now pretty much gone. Just pick the best player available that makes sense for your team, upgrade your overall talent level whenever possible, and you'll do fine.
    I don't know where people were getting that from, I always thought it was going to be pretty strong, I think the production we got out of the QBs was the biggest surprise, but everything else doesn't really surprise me. I will give you that about 2010 though, it was just a massive fail in general from a draft class perspective.




  10. #1786

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    People said last year's draft was one of the weakest in memory as well, yet look at how many rookies lit up the NFL out of that supposedly "weak" class. There's no prospect who's felt to be similar to AJ Green RIGHT NOW, certainly, but what difference does that make? Green isn't in this draft. The point I was trying to make earlier is that teams will try to find the NEXT AJ Green, and they will. It just might not be a prospect with all the hype that Green had.

    People said the 2010 draft was one of the strongest of all time, yet go back and look at the first 2 rounds and see how many players busted. Suh and McCoy were both seen as future HOFers, neither one of them lived up to their hype. Sam Bradford is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. Eric Berry (the next Ed Reed) has underwhelmed. Rolando McClain might be out of football next year. And so on and so on...

    The quality of a given draft is always relative and can't really be assessed a lot of the time until several years down the road. You can always say "so and so isn't worthy of a top 10 pick," but if a given player is one of the 10 best talents in the class then why the hell not?

    With the rookie wage scale most of the downside of missing on a pick is now pretty much gone. Just pick the best player available that makes sense for your team, upgrade your overall talent level whenever possible, and you'll do fine.
    I did say Just looking at it going in, and I'm only talking about pre draft grades. I didn't say, anything like, this draft sucks and no good players are coming out of it.

    Who knows 3 years from now.

    I am only saying looking at it going in...before anybody knows what any of these guys do in the league, it looks like a very poor draft...I certainly would have taken last years draft going in over this one...in regards to high end talent, the first 2 guys were 2 of the best QB's to come out in the last decade as far as pre draft grades.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  11. #1787

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    People said last year's draft was one of the weakest in memory as well, yet look at how many rookies lit up the NFL out of that supposedly "weak" class. There's no prospect who's felt to be similar to AJ Green RIGHT NOW, certainly, but what difference does that make? Green isn't in this draft. The point I was trying to make earlier is that teams will try to find the NEXT AJ Green, and they will. It just might not be a prospect with all the hype that Green had.

    People said the 2010 draft was one of the strongest of all time, yet go back and look at the first 2 rounds and see how many players busted. Suh and McCoy were both seen as future HOFers, neither one of them lived up to their hype. Sam Bradford is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. Eric Berry (the next Ed Reed) has underwhelmed. Rolando McClain might be out of football next year. And so on and so on...

    The quality of a given draft is always relative and can't really be assessed a lot of the time until several years down the road. You can always say "so and so isn't worthy of a top 10 pick," but if a given player is one of the 10 best talents in the class then why the hell not?

    With the rookie wage scale most of the downside of missing on a pick is now pretty much gone. Just pick the best player available that makes sense for your team, upgrade your overall talent level whenever possible, and you'll do fine.
    Very good points. The nature of the draft makes it impossible to empirically state "this is a weak draft" or "this is a strong draft." There are good players in every draft.

    Besides that, most experts that I've heard have said that, other than the top 15 picks or so, this draft is just as strong as last years.




  12. #1788
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    I think a lot of drafts are now going to start looking a lot like this because of the rookie wage scale.

    Higher rated underclassmen are finishing their degrees (which is a good thing) rather than coming out, because there isn't as much incentive to come out and try and be a top 10 pick and signing a $60 million contract.

    Just seems to be a trend I've noticed the past two drafts.
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