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  1. #829

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread



    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I said that in regards that the team has to do whatever possible to get an elite guy.

    You don't need an elite LT to win and I don't think if we don't win a Super Bowl that Oher will be the reason why.

    And that's why I'm sure the team is not going to package a bunch of picks to go up 10+ spots for one. If one is sitting there that they really like close to their pick...maybe. But not in the first half and probably not top 20.
    based on the Jimmy Johnson value chart, our first two picks are roughly equal to the 17th pick, assuming we picked 29. SO take that plus or minus 2 picks. I suggest, that if the right player(Let's call him Eric Fisher) is the last remaining LT candidate the FO likes, and it's around pick 15, that we should be picking up the phone. I'm not suggesting moving several picks(unless the 2 is not one of them) and I'm certianly not suggesting packaging future 1sts. But Yes, I would trade 1+2 or 1,3,4+6(assuming we have a good portion of comp picks) for the right guy, againassumign he's the last one the FO lkes.




  2. #830

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Just wondering, who are some guys to take a look at in tonight's bowl game?
    For Oregon...check out Dion Jordan (OLB/DE) and Taylor Hart (5 tech DE).

    For K State, this will be some peoples first chance to see a guy talked about a lot on these boards...Arthur Brown (ILB).

    I don't think there are many other guys who would be first or second day picks.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  3. #831
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    For Oregon...check out Dion Jordan (OLB/DE) and Taylor Hart (5 tech DE).

    For K State, this will be some peoples first chance to see a guy talked about a lot on these boards...Arthur Brown (ILB).

    I don't think there are many other guys who would be first or second day picks.
    Thanks!
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  4. #832

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    based on the Jimmy Johnson value chart, our first two picks are roughly equal to the 17th pick, assuming we picked 29. SO take that plus or minus 2 picks. I suggest, that if the right player(Let's call him Eric Fisher) is the last remaining LT candidate the FO likes, and it's around pick 15, that we should be picking up the phone. I'm not suggesting moving several picks(unless the 2 is not one of them) and I'm certianly not suggesting packaging future 1sts. But Yes, I would trade 1+2 or 1,3,4+6(assuming we have a good portion of comp picks) for the right guy, againassumign he's the last one the FO lkes.
    And there's the rub.

    I don't think the team thinks Oher is that badly in need of replacing that they would trade all those picks.

    We all know you do as well as some others. But nothing I've seen or heard about the team says they are looking to replace him...and if they aren't actively looking to replace him, they likely won't trade a bunch of picks for one when they are going to have a lot of other holes to fill as well.

    For instance, I really don't like Jameel McClain as a starting ILB. I think they should be looking to draft an ILB with one of their first 3 picks whether we keep Ellerbe or not with the intention of that guy replacing McClain ASAP. But I feel the team for whatever reason likes him and won't be actively looking to replace him.

    That's all I'm saying.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  5. #833

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    For Oregon...check out Dion Jordan (OLB/DE) and Taylor Hart (5 tech DE).

    For K State, this will be some peoples first chance to see a guy talked about a lot on these boards...Arthur Brown (ILB).

    I don't think there are many other guys who would be first or second day picks.
    Great info. I was about to ask the same question but NCRaven beat me to it




  6. #834
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    For Oregon...check out Dion Jordan (OLB/DE) and Taylor Hart (5 tech DE).

    For K State, this will be some peoples first chance to see a guy talked about a lot on these boards...Arthur Brown (ILB).

    I don't think there are many other guys who would be first or second day picks.
    I would just add that Howie Long has another OL son who plays for Oregon - Kyle Long #74
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  7. #835

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    I would just add that Howie Long has another OL son who plays for Oregon - Kyle Long #74
    Yeah, I think he is a mid round guy, but he has potential.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #836

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I said that in regards that the team has to do whatever possible to get an elite guy.

    You don't need an elite LT to win and I don't think if we don't win a Super Bowl that Oher will be the reason why.

    And that's why I'm sure the team is not going to package a bunch of picks to go up 10+ spots for one. If one is sitting there that they really like close to their pick...maybe. But not in the first half and probably not top 20.
    I agree. I'm loath to trade up at all but particularly for a LT. Left tackles are very good, but they're not really a true franchise cornerstone, and taking one high doesn't guarantee they'll pan out (Robert Gallery, etc.) nor does taking one outside the top 10 or so mean they can't play well (Andrew Whitworth, Duane Brown, Michael Roos, etc.)

    I'm not on board with trading up for a LT unless a guy like Eric Fisher starts to fall into the very late teens or 20s'... then it starts to make more sense. But you never mortgage your future for anybody other than an elite QB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    And there's the rub.

    I don't think the team thinks Oher is that badly in need of replacing that they would trade all those picks.

    We all know you do as well as some others. But nothing I've seen or heard about the team says they are looking to replace him...and if they aren't actively looking to replace him, they likely won't trade a bunch of picks for one when they are going to have a lot of other holes to fill as well.

    For instance, I really don't like Jameel McClain as a starting ILB. I think they should be looking to draft an ILB with one of their first 3 picks whether we keep Ellerbe or not with the intention of that guy replacing McClain ASAP. But I feel the team for whatever reason likes him and won't be actively looking to replace him.

    That's all I'm saying.
    And I agree with you here too. While I think Oher is a bottom-third LT in the NFL, I don't think the team agrees with me and ultimately that's what really matters. They don't want to REPLACE Oher, they want to EXTEND him. I find that crazy in some respects, but there's a chance however slim that he will improve at LT, he's versatile, and most of all, they used a 1st round pick on him and don't wan to admit they were wrong. (They could also want to move him to RT or G which I would be totally on board with--Oher would not.)

    Accepting the reality that Oher is likely here to stay, IMO the plan should be to add a potential LT in the later rounds who can back up Oher and potentially push him. Ideal scenario is that said draftee is so good he pushes Oher to the bench. Worst case scenario is he's depth which the team doesn't have at LT for 2013.

    I also think the team will look to upgrade elsewhere on the OL, like at LG and/or C (dependent on how they feel about Gino.) If they can build at least a 3-man wall on the OL, say at C-RG-RT or LG-C-RG (which is what the Saints have, a great interior line) then they can take pressure off Flacco by running the ball and at least giving him somewhere to step up into when pressure comes. I think that's what they'll look to do.




  9. #837

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    And, again, I agree with Bmorecareful.... sort of.


    I actually think the team is so stuck up Oher's behind that they will intentionally strip the roster of even having someone to push him... I really don't understand what they see in this guy, but despite declining play that didn't even start out that great, they keep hammering that square peg into a round hole. I expect to see him extended this offseason for what, IMO will be an absolutely OBSCENE contract. Without a doubt those talks should end before $5m a year is considerent, but I'm guessing he gets closer to $8m/yr, which is pure embarrassment for Oz and CO, IMO.

    I jsut like to think of myself as smart and play GM, but this FO, will bend over backwards to keep Oher happy. He has now won the LT job in 2 seperate camps wihout competition, and in both camps he was at best the 2nd best LT.

    It's ridiculous, so I pretend to think that favoritism doesn't exist, and that some day they will wake up to their senses and see what the rest of the world sees, that he's one heck of a guard being foolishly asked to play LT.

    I guess, all we can hope for is as you state, a late round LT to actually blossom into a solid-good player and force their hand.




  10. #838
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    And, again, I agree with Bmorecareful.... sort of.


    I actually think the team is so stuck up Oher's behind that they will intentionally strip the roster of even having someone to push him... I really don't understand what they see in this guy, but despite declining play that didn't even start out that great, they keep hammering that square peg into a round hole. I expect to see him extended this offseason for what, IMO will be an absolutely OBSCENE contract. Without a doubt those talks should end before $5m a year is considerent, but I'm guessing he gets closer to $8m/yr, which is pure embarrassment for Oz and CO, IMO.

    I jsut like to think of myself as smart and play GM, but this FO, will bend over backwards to keep Oher happy. He has now won the LT job in 2 seperate camps wihout competition, and in both camps he was at best the 2nd best LT.

    It's ridiculous, so I pretend to think that favoritism doesn't exist, and that some day they will wake up to their senses and see what the rest of the world sees, that he's one heck of a guard being foolishly asked to play LT.

    I guess, all we can hope for is as you state, a late round LT to actually blossom into a solid-good player and force their hand.
    You really have no clue what their going to pay him, I really don't understand where all the ''the FO loves Oher too much'' crap comes from, he's playing LT because we have/had no other options, simple as. We really don't know what they're going to give him, but you can be sure there is NO way Ozzie signs him for that much money if at all. He'd probably earn him self more money playing guard lol.




  11. #839

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    You really have no clue what their going to pay him, I really don't understand where all the ''the FO loves Oher too much'' crap comes from, he's playing LT because we have/had no other options, simple as. We really don't know what they're going to give him, but you can be sure there is NO way Ozzie signs him for that much money if at all. He'd probably earn him self more money playing guard lol.
    there are literally dozens of harbaugh quotes over the past two years saying they think Oher is there LT now and into the future...
    He's been handed the job twice... the only reason he went to RTlast year is that the only legitimate starting tackle available was LT only.

    You are right that I have no idea what they will offer him, but I can be assured that it will be for FAR more then a similar player from a different team. I aslo think it is VERY fair to say it would be a HUGE ammount more then any other team in football would offer him.




  12. #840
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Okay, how about Elam, Arthur Brown, Da'Rick Rogers?

    It's a shame you only get one pick per round sometimes.




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