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  1. #631

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread



    BPR, curious to hear your thoughts on Cobi Hamilton...i havent watched him a bunch but when i did i was suprised with his fluidity and speed after the catch but it was mainly drags, seam stuff and quick slants. Havent seen him run many other routes.




  2. #632
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Just to throw in my .02, Marquess Wilson is one of the "big receivers" in this draft whose tape I actually like. Guys like Justin Hunter, Keenan Allen, Cordarelle Patterson, Cobi Hamilton, etc. are not super impressive to me as the top big WRs in the class. I wouldn't want the Ravens to waste early round picks on those guys.
    His hands look a little "iffy" if you ask me.





  3. #633
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I don't see durability as a huge issue for Wilson. The kid has never missed a game in college despite routinely going across the middle and taking a lot of hits.

    A lot of guys with Wilson's spindly/lanky frame have to deal with pain tolerance issues from lingering injuries. If you watch Torrey Smith, almost every time he takes a hit he comes up limping. He injured his ankle in 2010 and it still gives him trouble, but he plays through it and it doesn't really affect his play. It's strictly pain tolerance. Smith and Wilson have VERY similar body types, although Torrey is a little better developed in his upper body.




    I don't understand where you're seeing that similarity. Not only is Torrey about 3-4" shorter, but he is also at least 20lbs heavier. The pain tolerance thing, I get, but that is subjective. Wilson can go over the middle, but how is he going to go over the middle with someone like Kam Chancellor or Ryan Clark ready to take his block off? I actually think Wilson is built a lot like Randy Moss. Both are tall, lean, and lanky. However, Moss is still 205-210lbs. IF Wilson can put on weight, then he could be a similar receiver to Moss.

    I'm just not interested in Wilson for the Ravens.

    If the Ravens go receiver, I'd really like to see them (like you) go for Stedman Bailey. I think he may be the best all-around receiver in this draft. After him, Quinton Patton, Markus Wheaton, Ryan Swope, Connor Vernon, and maybe a late round flier on Roy Roundtree could work.
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  4. #634

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Carey View Post
    BPR, curious to hear your thoughts on Cobi Hamilton...i havent watched him a bunch but when i did i was suprised with his fluidity and speed after the catch but it was mainly drags, seam stuff and quick slants. Havent seen him run many other routes.
    I haven't watched him in awhile, but IIRC he's a track guy...fast but just has that one gear. His feet are a bit slow, and he seldom shakes anyone heads-up. He's a inside route leaner for sure and will never get any separation there until he cleans that up. He does run a pretty good out route though. Average hands with a good build, but could stand to be more physical than he actually plays. His stats are partly due to the fact that Arkansas was often getting beat so badly, mid-to-long range passing was the only prudent option on offense.

    Generally, he needs polish (like just about everyone else of course) but it's incredibly hard for a track guy to "develop" quick feet or choppier strides.




  5. #635

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post




    I don't understand where you're seeing that similarity. Not only is Torrey about 3-4" shorter, but he is also at least 20lbs heavier. The pain tolerance thing, I get, but that is subjective. Wilson can go over the middle, but how is he going to go over the middle with someone like Kam Chancellor or Ryan Clark ready to take his block off? I actually think Wilson is built a lot like Randy Moss. Both are tall, lean, and lanky. However, Moss is still 205-210lbs. IF Wilson can put on weight, then he could be a similar receiver to Moss.

    I'm just not interested in Wilson for the Ravens.

    If the Ravens go receiver, I'd really like to see them (like you) go for Stedman Bailey. I think he may be the best all-around receiver in this draft. After him, Quinton Patton, Markus Wheaton, Ryan Swope, Connor Vernon, and maybe a late round flier on Roy Roundtree could work.
    Torrey is 6'1 204 with 32 5/8 inch arms. He's pretty long-limbed and lanky, with slim shoulders and hips. Wilson is similarly built, but thinner with less upper body mass. No doubt Torrey has more bulk, but I'm talking about frame build, not body mass. Torrey's frame looks pretty much maxed out on bulk while Wilson's does not. If he's serious about getting drafted I'm sure he'll hit the weight room very hard over the next few months.

    I doubt Wilson will come in at 6'4 at the Combine... probably more like 6'2 and change, 6'3 tops. The 185-ish weight number is probably accurate. Randy Moss was like 6'4 190 when he came into the league. Wilson is probably going to have to put on a bit of weight, but the college tape tells a lot more about his durability than the number at the bottom of the scale.

    But hey, it doesn't really matter anyway. Wilson might not even get drafted, and if he does it will probably be in the 5th round or so... not really a big deal. I agree there are better prospects, I just think Wilson is one of the better "bigger" receivers. That's more a statement of how underwhelming guys like Keenan Allen and Justin Hunter are, IMO.




  6. #636

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I haven't watched him in awhile, but IIRC he's a track guy...fast but just has that one gear. His feet are a bit slow, and he seldom shakes anyone heads-up. He's a inside route leaner for sure and will never get any separation there until he cleans that up. He does run a pretty good out route though. Average hands with a good build, but could stand to be more physical than he actually plays. His stats are partly due to the fact that Arkansas was often getting beat so badly, mid-to-long range passing was the only prudent option on offense.

    Generally, he needs polish (like just about everyone else of course) but it's incredibly hard for a track guy to "develop" quick feet or choppier strides.
    Thanks! that explains it, didnt know he was a track guy. I guess it depends on what round you can get him in, people will fall in love with the size/speed combo and the production but their are certaintly variables that pad that.




  7. #637
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Mike Wallace has likely played his last down as a Steeler. Probably will get decent $ from some team.

    He would be kind of redundant to Torrey. Though it would be interesting to see how teams would cover two speedsters. After seeing him some this season I question his heart. He looks like he quit in quite a few games. Plus the Steeler fans for the most part don't want him back it seems.

    I think Dwayne Bowe would fit us nice, but doubt we will go after him.




  8. #638

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Mike Wallace has likely played his last down as a Steeler. Probably will get decent $ from some team.

    He would be kind of redundant to Torrey. Though it would be interesting to see how teams would cover two speedsters. After seeing him some this season I question his heart. He looks like he quit in quite a few games. Plus the Steeler fans for the most part don't want him back it seems.

    I think Dwayne Bowe would fit us nice, but doubt we will go after him.
    We say it every year, but this year I really think is the year we concentrate on developing our own guys. Even if we let Boldin and/or Jacoby Jones go, Doss has shown major flashes this year and looks like our next Boldin. Deonte Thompson has shown some flashes and Tommy Streeter has a ton of upside. I would also certainly expect the Ravens to prioritize WR in the draft if they lose guys.

    Wallace and Bowe are both overpriced and overrated. Not interested in either of them at all.




  9. #639

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Oh i forgot to tell you Wicked, your boy Datone Jones looks like a really good 5 tech prospect, Marsh looked quicker then i would have expected as well.




  10. #640

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    We say it every year, but this year I really think is the year we concentrate on developing our own guys. Even if we let Boldin and/or Jacoby Jones go, Doss has shown major flashes this year and looks like our next Boldin. Deonte Thompson has shown some flashes and Tommy Streeter has a ton of upside. I would also certainly expect the Ravens to prioritize WR in the draft if they lose guys.

    Wallace and Bowe are both overpriced and overrated. Not interested in either of them at all.
    I think we should let Boldin Go and have Doss fill his spot, but I think we should extend Jacoby... I like his promise on offense, but he has been an absolute STUD on returns, and I don't think that is somethign we can do without.




  11. #641

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    I think it's worth noting that when we took Torrey in the 2011 2nd round (#58 overall - 5th WR taken), Harbs and Ozzie pretty much said the same thing...(paraphrasing), "we were surprised that he landed in our lap, but we knew we had to take him."

    So they probably had 1st round or upper 2nd round value on him.
    We know KC took Baldwin at #25.
    At 43, MIN passed on a burner and went TE.
    At 44, DET went with Titus Young over Torrey...a more natural slot guy inside of Mega and Burleson. Young was the top WR on my board FWIW.
    At 47, STL also decided to pass on a burner (to help Bradford) and went TE too.
    CLE was at 59 (one slot behind us), but either they didn't want to or couldn't trade up for Torrey, and took Greg Little instead.

    Accounting for the "good, but not great, big bodied" WRs out there (Allen, Hunter, etc.) plus the Combine-heroes, I can clearly see Studman staying on the board until late into the 2nd round.




  12. #642

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Mike Wallace has likely played his last down as a Steeler. Probably will get decent $ from some team.

    He would be kind of redundant to Torrey. Though it would be interesting to see how teams would cover two speedsters. After seeing him some this season I question his heart. He looks like he quit in quite a few games. Plus the Steeler fans for the most part don't want him back it seems.

    I think Dwayne Bowe would fit us nice, but doubt we will go after him.
    You know, I completely disregarded the fact that at least two teams with [theoretical high] WR needs are going to be filling them with Wallace and Bowe. PIT can't pay another WR with its aging defense, but KC just might pay Bowe (which would be great b/c LT Albert would only have to escape the tag in order to hit the market).

    So that most likely takes one team, and maybe two out of the "we need to draft a game changing WR" mix for the Draft. So any perceived game changing WRs will stay on the Board longer...effectively pushing Studman down the board even more.

    Another x-factor...you can argue that STL at #30, DET at #54, and the other 3 teams in between that took a late 1st or early-to-mid 2nd WR in 2012--got burned, but even if they don't think that they did, do they come back in 2013 and take another WR? Probably not. Good for the Studman and General Patton fans among us.
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 12-28-2012 at 05:35 PM.
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  13. #643

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    BPR I hate you! Lol you have me in love with bailey. A thought just hit me tho. It is very possible that Austin goes in round 1. Couldn't it be very possible that the team that drafts geno smith reaches for bailey in the 2nd much like the colts did with luck and his tight end? The only hope we have is if Austin is there in round 2, I would still much rather have bailey as he is the more all round receiver . Just a thought.




  14. #644

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JCroUSAF View Post
    BPR I hate you! Lol you have me in love with bailey. A thought just hit me tho. It is very possible that Austin goes in round 1. Couldn't it be very possible that the team that drafts geno smith reaches for bailey in the 2nd much like the colts did with luck and his tight end? The only hope we have is if Austin is there in round 2, I would still much rather have bailey as he is the more all round receiver . Just a thought.
    I was actually thinking about that as well. I believe the Chiefs will take Geno Smith #1 overall as I think he'll be fantastic through the pre-draft process. I would then think that if Bailey is around for the first pick in the 3rd, KC certainly could grab him at that point. Teams love to surround a rookie QB with comfortable weapons, and Bailey and Smith have been playing together since high school. They would be a natural pair at the NFL level and KC has a need at WR if they let Dwayne Bowe walk, which most believe they will.

    Could/should Bailey go in the 2nd round? Well, the draft committee told him he'd be a 3rd round pick and most scouting services have him in that range. The pre-draft process will really dictate if he's able to creep up into the 2nd. If he has a great Combine, great Pro Day, etc. then it might be possible. I don't know if he'd be the Ravens' BPA at that point.. depends on who's on the board. I like him enough as a prospect to do it, though.




  15. #645

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    It's kind of funny, because looking back at some things Mark Clayton was also listed at 5'10 193 coming out of Oklahoma, exactly the same as Bailey, and they really were quite similar prospects. Both of them were guys who had very polished route running and quickness out of their breaks, but not elite long speed. Both were top playmakers in the short passing game who put up big time YAC with toughness, both played bigger than their listed size, and both were also credible deep threats and red zone targets for a Heisman Trophy-favorite QB. Both were Biletnikoff Award finalists who played in extremely receiver-friendly offenses in pass-happy conferences.

    Clayton wasn't a bust per se at the NFL level, but the game was simply a bit too fast for him to be as dominant as he was in college. Does that bode anything for Bailey? They are REALLY surprisingly similar prospects if you go back and re-watch tape. Kind of interesting and neat to look at.




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