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  1. #16

    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)



    Quote Originally Posted by Sua Sponte View Post
    I guess that wasn't you
    That sentence doesn't say what you think it says.

    His point is that you appear to be judging the OC position by passing results only, when offense is made up of passing and rushing.

    Then again passing is more important these days, so perhaps the focus is warranted.




  2. #17
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    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensNTerps View Post
    My inability to not know what I'm talking about? WTF

    All of Cam's offenses have been "in the race" since 2002 when the Chargers were still cleaning up the dreck that was left for them in the previous years by Mike Reilly and gang. They were 12-4, 9-7, and 14-2 in his last three years there as OC and that was in large part due to how effective their offense was.
    So I guess a good QB and a Hall of Fame RB and a great TE is no talent. This thread is not about Flacco, it's about Cam being mediocre so unless you can show some kind of legit reason that Cam is above average or even average than your missing the point.

    Is this Cam's son? You little Ginger, go back to school...
    Damn you got me, get off your Iphone and pay attention.




  3. #18
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    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    That sentence doesn't say what you think it says.

    His point is that you appear to be judging the OC position by passing results only, when offense is made up of passing and rushing.

    Then again passing is more important these days, so perhaps the focus is warranted.
    Than why even mention Brees for 4k. I stated that Cam was more successful when he based his Offense around the run, so credit was given for that, but it is hard to fail completely at the run when you have a Hall of Fame RB and a Ray Rice running the rock.

    Bottom Line Cam Cameron sucks!!




  4. #19

    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sua Sponte View Post
    Than why even mention Brees for 4k. I stated that Cam was more successful when he based his Offense around the run, so credit was given for that, but it is hard to fail completely at the run when you have a Hall of Fame RB and a Ray Rice running the rock.
    He mentioned it as a hypothetical achievement that you would recognize/credit in order to compare it to the actual achievement (their awesome running game/stats) that you seemed to be dismissing. He is saying both the achievements should be considered equal yet you are arguing like they are not.

    Personally, I think you both have points. He is right that offense as a whole is what Cam should be gauged on. You are right that in the context of 2012, passing game is more important to look at, as it matters more to the offense as a whole.




  5. #20
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    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sua Sponte View Post
    So I guess a good QB and a Hall of Fame RB and a great TE is no talent. This thread is not about Flacco, it's about Cam being mediocre so unless you can show some kind of legit reason that Cam is above average or even average than your missing the point.

    Is this Cam's son? You little Ginger, go back to school...
    Damn you got me, get off your Iphone and pay attention.
    It's not even worth responding to the troll. You are wasting time.




  6. #21
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    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    He mentioned it as a hypothetical achievement that you would recognize/credit in order to compare it to the actual achievement (their awesome running game/stats) that you seemed to be dismissing. He is saying both the achievements should be considered equal yet you are arguing like they are not.
    Again I never dismissed the running game. I said that his success was from the running game... and it has seemed to disappear around these parts.
    I could care less if Flacco throws 30td's for 4,000yds. If the running game is dominated so be it, but don't ignore it and don't forgot about the guy several times in certain games that we always seem to lose. His game plans suck and he can not adjust in game, if he adjust in game it is to go pass happy with long developing routes.




  7. #22

    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sua Sponte View Post
    Again I never dismissed the running game. I said that his success was from the running game... and it has seemed to disappear around these parts.
    I could care less if Flacco throws 30td's for 4,000yds. If the running game is dominated so be it, but don't ignore it and don't forgot about the guy several times in certain games that we always seem to lose. His game plans suck and he can not adjust in game, if he adjust in game it is to go pass happy with long developing routes.
    I could be wrong but it seems as if your point is that Cam Cameron, over the years, and even with mad talent at his disposal, has basically put up average numbers as an offensive coordinator. And that given the talent at his disposal, the net result is that he, in reality, is a below average offensive coordinator. (I'm not trying to put words into your mouth; that's just my take on what you've posted.)




  8. #23
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    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    I could be wrong but it seems as if your point is that Cam Cameron, over the years, and even with mad talent at his disposal, has basically put up average numbers as an offensive coordinator. And that given the talent at his disposal, the net result is that he, in reality, is a below average offensive coordinator. (I'm not trying to put words into your mouth; that's just my take on what you've posted.)
    Correct...

    He had a few good years in SD with Marty, but he rode the back of a Hall of Fame RB and a dominant TE. He forgot what his success was built on. The old school run the ball down your throat with a TE to make you pay when you cheat to play the run.
    With new rules and a Pass happy league he needs to change that a bit and he does not have the knowledge to do so apparently. His philosophy and the way he develops his routes are still that of the running game, screen passes and dump offs, rounding off routes instead of cuts and breaks make it easier for a WR to block down field.
    Last edited by Sua Sponte; 12-07-2012 at 01:29 PM.




  9. #24

    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Cam didn't run the offense in SD. It was Marty's offense, the same one he ran in Cleveland.

    Shottenheimer was very conventional. Run Run Pass Punt. Cam seems to go out of his way to do the exact opposite of what a normal play caller would do.




  10. #25

    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Before San Diego Cam spent five years as the head coach of Indiana University - where he went 18W and 37L - before they fired him!




  11. #26
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    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by rharris1986 View Post
    Before San Diego Cam spent five years as the head coach of Indiana University - where he went 18W and 37L - before they fired him!
    who the fuck did he frame or suck to get in the NFL?




  12. #27

    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    who the fuck did he frame or suck to get in the NFL?
    I'm sure he is a very nice man and a great friend. In certain circles that means a lot more than being competent. You never heard of the good old boys? I've witnesses that management strategy run a very successful corporation straight into the ground.




  13. #28

    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sua Sponte View Post
    Again I never dismissed the running game. I said that his success was from the running game... and it has seemed to disappear around these parts.
    I could care less if Flacco throws 30td's for 4,000yds. If the running game is dominated so be it, but don't ignore it and don't forgot about the guy several times in certain games that we always seem to lose. His game plans suck and he can not adjust in game, if he adjust in game it is to go pass happy with long developing routes.
    Hey, I generally agree with you. I was a Cameron critic long before it was trendy around here.

    And I wasn't even looking at the stats, I was just looking at how many different varieties of plays and formations and routes/runs that other teams (almost every other team) use that don't even seem to be in our play book. To me stats are not as important as this. If I see this predictability/simplicity every game and the stats show Cameron's offense is 10th, then I conclude it could/should be 5th if the offense were more like other offenses, etc. If it's 5th looking like this, then I think it could be 1st if like others. If it is 1st like this than I think it could be 1st and even more dominant like others. So to me, stats aren't that big of a deal.

    But I also do somewhat agree with RavensNTerps about people's automatic assumption that Joe is a great QB being shackled by Cameron. It may be true, it may not be true, but too many people talk as if it is not only true but clearly proven (how, I have no idea).

    It may be a case, especially if you assume that our vanilla offense is partly the way it is because it is "safe," that some QBs would look worse in other, riskier, more complicated, offenses than they do in Cam's (if they can't handle the quick decision-making or pre-snap reads required to run, say, a Patriots offense). Or they might look the same in Cam's as others, if they are average at the mental aspects of the game. Or of course, if they are supremely talented in all aspects of the position, they might indeed look better in other offenses (explode, even) than they do in Cam's rudimentary offense. I don't think we can safely assume that the safe, vanilla automatically is harming the QB's stats or performance. It may be it may not be.

    All that said, I think the Joe-Cam stagnation (if not regression) over the least two years means we need to change up that duo. Since good QBs (let alone potentially great QBs) are infinitely harder to find than semi-accomplished OCs, Cam should be shown the door. At that point we can see how much each of those two were responsible for our "average" offense.




  14. #29

    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Well if Cam is throwing the ball 60 percent of the time he is giving Joe every opportunity to shine. Shottenheimer never ran that kind of offense. Because without a Peyton Manning it isn't going to work. Its almost like he is setting Joe up for failure with such an unbalanced scheme.




  15. #30

    Re: Cam Cameron (10 years)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    Well if Cam is throwing the ball 60 percent of the time he is giving Joe every opportunity to shine. Shottenheimer never ran that kind of offense. Because without a Peyton Manning it isn't going to work. Its almost like he is setting Joe up for failure with such an unbalanced scheme.
    I agree the number attempts are not the issue in the way the 49ers are "safe" with Alex Smith. But I think the pass routes and pass plays are "safe" in the sense they don't require too much decision-making and they avoid the areas of the field where a mis-read can easily turn into an INT.

    So to me, even if we threw every down, the design and risk-averseness and simplicity of the pass plays themselves could hold back a QB who otherwise would thrive (assuming the QB could handle the extra risk and responisibilty without making so many mistakes as to lead to worse results).

    So I agree, Cam would need to change everything if he wants a pass-happy offense (which he seems to be okay with). Using a Martyball playbook but throwing it more times than running it isn't the solution.
    Last edited by Haloti92; 12-07-2012 at 02:28 PM.




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