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  1. #16

    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I think the McKinnie/Gaither crowd may be some of the most dramatic posters I've ever seen.

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    Oh really? I just see it more as John Harbaugh trying to force his 1st round draft pick into becoming Jon Ogden




  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06 View Post
    And he's still better than Oher. Oher is garbage. Look I understand finding a great LT is hard, almost as much as finding a good QB. But damn I'd even take middle of the road at this point and unfortunatly Pher isn't even that. He's bottom third. I would've rather they tried KO or Reid over there than move Oher back.
    I agree that oher isn't a lt. He has a lot more bad games then good.


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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post

    Please, show me where I was wrong in anything I said.

    Im becoming a broken record asking that damn question. Everyone around here literally just has some derogatory remark about something, but never backs up their "argument." Its basically, "youre wrong, Im right - because I said so."
    Hang on there chappy.

    I didnt say you were wrong or right.

    Literally everyone on this board who is pro McKinnie and/or anti Oher has some over the top conspiracy that they are either purposely not playing him to avoid paying more money to him OR because they dont like him and dont want him playing in their sand box anymore.

    Fact - they wanted him to lose more weight and get into better shape than he was last year.
    Fact - he didnt achieve that. That is why they held him out during OTA's.
    Fact - he not only failed to show up on time to training camp, but the guy also didnt even notify them of what was going on.
    Fact - he had his chiropractor call Harbs and tell him that he would report soon and was resting his back because he slipped and fell right before training camp.
    Fact - when he reported to training camp he was not in good shape and was still hurt, ergo he couldn't practice nor play in any games until the 3rd pre season game IIRC.
    Fact - KO played pretty damn well at RT during pre-season. They werent expecting that. They were expecting him to play LG.
    Fact - Oher played pretty well this pre-season at LT and unlike McKinnie was in excellent shape and could handle the rigors of a high paced up tempo offense.
    Fact - McKinnie is by far the better tackle, but hasnt put forth any effort whatsoever to make the coaches reconsider the starting OL.

    Those are the real reasons why McKinnie is riding the pine. Whether or not folks want to accept it, that's the way it is.

    Is Oher great? Hell no. But he is in great shape, wants to get better, and is reliable. He has also improved greatly in a lot of aspects.

    Again, I think if Harbs or Cam or whoever were to just straight up go with the sugar huddle O, we would all see that Oher is a fairly decent LT in that style of offense.

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post

    Oh really? I just see it more as John Harbaugh trying to force his 1st round draft pick into becoming Jon Ogden
    Haha. Ok.

    You're probably right. Why would any coach actually want to field the best team? To hell with that. If you are not one of the boys, you dont play. Doesn't matter how much effort you put into it because if the coach doesnt like you then you wont play.

    Makes sense.

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  5. #20

    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Hang on there chappy.

    I didnt say you were wrong or right.

    Literally everyone on this board who is pro McKinnie and/or anti Oher has some over the top conspiracy that they are either purposely not playing him to avoid paying more money to him OR because they dont like him and dont want him playing in their sand box anymore.

    Fact - they wanted him to lose more weight and get into better shape than he was last year.
    Fact - he didnt achieve that. That is why they held him out during OTA's.
    Fact - he not only failed to show up on time to training camp, but the guy also didnt even notify them of what was going on.
    Fact - he had his chiropractor call Harbs and tell him that he would report soon and was resting his back because he slipped and fell right before training camp.
    Fact - when he reported to training camp he was not in good shape and was still hurt, ergo he couldn't practice nor play in any games until the 3rd pre season game IIRC.
    Fact - KO played pretty damn well at RT during pre-season. They werent expecting that. They were expecting him to play LG.
    Fact - Oher played pretty well this pre-season at LT and unlike McKinnie was in excellent shape and could handle the rigors of a high paced up tempo offense.
    Fact - McKinnie is by far the better tackle, but hasnt put forth any effort whatsoever to make the coaches reconsider the starting OL.

    Those are the real reasons why McKinnie is riding the pine. Whether or not folks want to accept it, that's the way it is.

    Is Oher great? Hell no. But he is in great shape, wants to get better, and is reliable. He has also improved greatly in a lot of aspects.

    Again, I think if Harbs or Cam or whoever were to just straight up go with the sugar huddle O, we would all see that Oher is a fairly decent LT in that style of offense.

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    Fact - they wanted him to lose more weight and get into better shape than he was last year.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...re-ravens-camp

    It seems as if the ravens organization doesnt think LT's are allowed to be injured




  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post

    Fact - they wanted him to lose more weight and get into better shape than he was last year.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...re-ravens-camp

    It seems as if the ravens organization doesnt think LT's are allowed to be injured
    He lost weight right after the season and was able to get the roster bonus, which was $500k.

    However, when he reported to OTA's it was evident that he had lost weight, but hadnt really been working on getting into shape.

    There is a difference.

    At the end of the day, McKinnie just isnt reliable, takes plays off, and generally isnt interested in playing. Hell, even his own teammates have made statements that they don't even believe he really likes playing football, but it is easy money for him.

    I was stoked when they signed him last year and I was really hoping that he would get it together enough to be a fixture for a few years, but you cant make a 33 year old man give a shit if he doesnt want to.

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  7. #22

    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

    Until very recently I felt that this team's best OL configuration had Oher at LT and McKinnie on the bench. However, the reasons that I believed made that our best OL are no longer valid.

    Oher has not improved at all. Birk has been bad this year and is trending even further downward. They're not even running a no-huddle, uptempo offense anymore (I believe they've taken no more than 4 or 5 snaps out of the no-huddle since the bye.) This situation is approaching critical mass. I think currently our 5 best offensive linemen are, in this order: Yanda, Osemele, McKinnie, Oher, Reid. Is there a way to assemble an OL of our 5 best players?

    LT-McKinnie LG-Reid C-Yanda RG-Osemele RT-Oher

    I'm sure Osemele could kick inside to right guard at a high level. Yanda took snaps at center in the past and I'm sure he's able to play the position. Oher is best at RT, Reid has been acceptable at LG, and McKinnie is this team's best LT.




  8. #23
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    Remember that was against the #1 defense
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  9. #24
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    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Until very recently I felt that this team's best OL configuration had Oher at LT and McKinnie on the bench. However, the reasons that I believed made that our best OL are no longer valid.

    Oher has not improved at all. Birk has been bad this year and is trending even further downward. They're not even running a no-huddle, uptempo offense anymore (I believe they've taken no more than 4 or 5 snaps out of the no-huddle since the bye.) This situation is approaching critical mass. I think currently our 5 best offensive linemen are, in this order: Yanda, Osemele, McKinnie, Oher, Reid. Is there a way to assemble an OL of our 5 best players?

    LT-McKinnie LG-Reid C-Yanda RG-Osemele RT-Oher

    I'm sure Osemele could kick inside to right guard at a high level. Yanda took snaps at center in the past and I'm sure he's able to play the position. Oher is best at RT, Reid has been acceptable at LG, and McKinnie is this team's best LT.
    YES, this is what I have been saying too.

    Our best possible line would be just that, you get all the weak links out and now you have a big tough unit up front. Yanda isn't going to get pushed back at center, Jah Reid has shown that he has great potential at guard, and KO is a future star. Oher can be a good RT, and McKinnie isn't great but in pass pro he can give Joe more time than what Oher can.




  10. #25
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    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    that's a backhanded insult if you ask me. not dangerously misthrown? In other words no one could catch them
    I should clarify, since it obviously wasn't clear as written...

    That was intended purely as a compliment. Flacco had no really poorly thrown deep balls would have been a better way to say it.

    --The throws were primarily into single coverage.
    --The balls were in line with the receiver, with no dangerous throws to the inside where a safety could make a play.
    --Underthrown balls are good for PI and difficult to intercept if the receiver is right there, but the most poorly thrown of these deep balls was the underthrow at the goal line where Flacco had lots of space deeper and to the right in the end zone for Smith to run under it.




  11. #26
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    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

    I thought folks might like the expected yards stuff at the end, but if you want to think about it in general, a simple rule of thumb is that you'll replicate Joe's yards for the year by taking:

    ATS opportunities X 9 + non-ATS opportunities X 3.5

    So each ATS opportunity generated by the line has been worth approximately 5.5 yards.




  12. #27

    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    YES, this is what I have been saying too.

    Our best possible line would be just that, you get all the weak links out and now you have a big tough unit up front. Yanda isn't going to get pushed back at center, Jah Reid has shown that he has great potential at guard, and KO is a future star. Oher can be a good RT, and McKinnie isn't great but in pass pro he can give Joe more time than what Oher can.
    Yeah, you were talking about moving Yanda to C in the past and I wasn't for it, but now I've come around. I still think you're going to lose some run blocking because Yanda is basically the anchor point of the entire line at RG, and he won't be able to do that as much at C, but Birk is just playing at a very uneven and overall unacceptable level right now.

    I don't actually expect the Ravens to do that unfortunately. They seem 100% committed to the OL as it is, including McKinnie on the bench. I guess you could argue that they have a much clearer picture since they're seeing what's happening in practice every week, but still, I REALLY find it hard to believe that this OL couldn't be better with personnel changes.




  13. #28
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    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Haha. Ok.

    You're probably right. Why would any coach actually want to field the best team? To hell with that. If you are not one of the boys, you dont play. Doesn't matter how much effort you put into it because if the coach doesnt like you then you wont play.

    Makes sense.

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    Plenty of coaches will ride or die just to save face or something. Ahem Billick with Boller just as an example.




  14. #29
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    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

    Quote Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06 View Post
    Plenty of coaches will ride or die just to save face or something. Ahem Billick with Boller just as an example.
    I don't disagree with you that there are some circumstances, but at the time who was better on the team? Anthony Wright? Well, Billick went with him for quite some time. Billick also went with Steve McNair for a few seasons too. So, he obviously saw an issue and tried to adjust.

    I legitimately think - wrong or right - that Harbaugh feels that McKinnie is not one of the 5 best OL'men on the team.
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  15. #30
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    Re: FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I don't disagree with you that there are some circumstances, but at the time who was better on the team? Anthony Wright? Well, Billick went with him for quite some time. Billick also went with Steve McNair for a few seasons too. So, he obviously saw an issue and tried to adjust.

    I legitimately think - wrong or right - that Harbaugh feels that McKinnie is not one of the 5 best OL'men on the team.
    Coaches need to play their best players. They get fired very quickly these days. The Seahawks traded for a QB, paid him good money and then cut him despite that investment. They then paid up for one of the top free agents QBs on the market. They ended up going with a rookie 3rd round pick. It didn't matter how much the spent in cap and picks for the other guys. Carroll needed to win so he played the guy he thought gave him the best chance to win.

    I completely agree with you that is what Harbaugh is doing with McKinnie. He feels that he has better options and so he's going with them.
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