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  1. #31
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..



    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    It's happened before.

    Back during the Black Sox scandal when the White Sox threw the world series they had a pitcher who was promised a $10,000 bonus for winning 30 games. He got up to 28 wins with
    about 3 weeks left, an easy accomplishment for him.

    But Comiskey, the Sox owner didn't want to pay him the bonus so he ordered the manager
    to bench him. When the pitcher complained the manager said he was saving him for the
    series.

    That's why he took part in throwing the game.

    I don't think Bisciotti would ever do that because he wants that trophy more than anyone
    and has ordered Ozzie to spend right up to the cap.

    Benching Ray to save money just doesn't add up for the Ravens but Cam benching him cause he's
    pissed does add up. I think w/o looking it up that the rookie RB has more carries than Ricky Williams
    last year and McGahee before that.
    And you'd be off base. Pierce has 59 carries. That's about 5 per game. Which means he's not even on pace for 100 carries this season.

    Williams got 108 last year. Willis had an even 100 his last year here and he probably would have matched his total from the year before (109) if he hadn't missed a game.




  2. #32
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBob View Post
    Not supported by the facts:

    Here is how some of the top NFL RBs do on 3 and 1-2 to go:

    Adrian Petersen 11-106 but one carry was 90 yards for a TD so that leaves 10-16
    Marshawn Lynch 7-1
    Doug Martin 8-5
    Alfred Morris 10- (-1)
    Arian Foster 22-81
    Jamaal Charles 3-2
    Stevan Ridley 13-56
    Frank Gore 9-12
    Ray Rice 11-28

    FYI, last year Rice had 17-147 on 3rd and 2 or less. For his career, Rice has 47-277 on 3rd and 2 or less. That is almost 6YPC over his career on 3rd and short.

    Bad short yardage back is a myth.
    Thank you for sharing this. +1.




  3. #33

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Ray Rice is an excellent short yardage back.

    As long as there is a crack somewhere for him to squeeze through or there's enough push from the blockers in front of him that when he adds his own push to the mix, he's able to force his way forward for a few yards.

    What he is not is Jamal Lewis or Jerome Bettis: the type of big power back who consistently moves piles himself. If his blockers get pushed back into him, Ray usually goes nowhere unless he can bounce it to the outside.




  4. #34

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBob View Post
    FYI, last year Rice had 17-147 on 3rd and 2 or less. For his career, Rice has 47-277 on 3rd and 2 or less. That is almost 6YPC over his career on 3rd and short.

    Bad short yardage back is a myth.
    You're going to make me rage even more when I see that 3rd and 2 shotgun again. I think I found the real reason. Someone doesn't want to get passed on the all-time yards from scrimmage list. rice.png




  5. #35
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Except this same shit was happening before Rice signed the new contract.

    Summary of the problem - you can't fix stupid.

    Cam just doesn't know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. He's knowledgeable, just not intelligent. He's a dumb guy who can't outwit a donkey, but he's spent thousands of hours in a film room, so via the Peter Principle, he rose to become an offensive coordinator (and disastrously, a HC, briefly, thus providing additional evidence of the Principle at work).

    He's a "plugger" not a genius.

    He can know all the X's and O's he wants, the problem is he's just a fucking dumbass who consistently gets outwitted by smarter people.

    Most of us get through life without this being a problem, because we aren't in situations where scores are kept, and so our decisions, and their effects, cannot be so easily traced to results like yards, points, and wins. We get out-foxed, we probably never realize it. Cam gets out-foxed, and we can break it down on game film forever.

    We don't need a radical shift in offensive philosophy. We just need somebody smart enough to realize that those milk bottles at the carnival are designed not to fall down, and who won't spend all day throwing balls at them wondering why they keep staying up.




  6. #36
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Not sure that something from 93 years ago is totally relevant today, but good memory....for the most part.

    The pitcher you are thinking of is Eddie Cicotte, who was an outstanding righthander for the ChiSox. He actually won 29 games in 1919 and, although never proven, the urban legend is that Chicago manager Kid Gleason was told to sit him for the last 5 games of the season to remove any chance of him receiving that $10,000 bonus.

    If I recall correctly, the $10,000 bonus was more than his entire yearly salary, so this wasn't exactly the same thing. It wasn't a case of a millionaire losing a bonus that comprised 5-10% of his yearly salary. This was a massive bonus in those years. Cicotte would almost certainly be in Coopertown right now if not for his association with the fix. It's a shame.
    Absolutely he would and that was a lot of money in those days. The average salary was aroun $600 pr yr for a working stiff.

    My grandfather made about $1,000 pr yr as a plumbing contractor.That bonus was about twice his anuual salary which was one of the best.

    I couldn't remember the names but he had a big mortgage to pay on his farm and needed the bonus.

    Cominsky was a mean owner and the real reason why they threw the series.
    Shoeless Joe Jackson was the greatest hitter of the day and Babe Ruth said he copied him 100% but he went out in disgrace too.

    The reason they were called the Black Sox is because back in those days the players had to pay to clean their own uniforms which cost a lot of money they didn't have. Most players worked in the factories and mines during the off season.

    So the players refused to wash their uniforms and played in dirty ones and a writer quipped they were Black Socks and the name stuck.

    The scandal added a double meaning to the name.

    I beg to differ though. I bet there are some owners that still do that. I bet that Charlie Finley did that back in the 70s and 80s. He tried to trade the entire freaking team than pay them and he traded Reggie Jackson to us who ended up in NY of course.


    Im just saying that Bisciotti isn't cheap like that and will spend to win another trophy.

    We're lucky to have him.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 12-06-2012 at 12:52 PM.




  7. #37
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Here's a grat movie about the scandal. Every sports fan should see it. Great acting too.
    Bucky Weaver was banned too and he didn't take part but knew about it and didn't rat his friends
    out. He spent the rest of his life trying to be reinstated. He would have made the HOF too.

    Damn shame.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095082/




  8. #38

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Rice is a great short yardage back, excellent at getting low, angling his body and twisting through small cracks to always be moving forward while being tackled. Our offensive line, on the other hand, appears to be terrible in short yardage situations. They have not been able to open holes when the defense is expecting run. Whether this is due to lack of talent or unimaginative play design I cannot say conclusively, but I certainly don't think #27 is the problem.
    Long days and pleasant nights.




  9. #39

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland of Gilead View Post
    Rice is a great short yardage back, excellent at getting low, angling his body and twisting through small cracks to always be moving forward while being tackled. Our offensive line, on the other hand, appears to be terrible in short yardage situations. They have not been able to open holes when the defense is expecting run. Whether this is due to lack of talent or unimaginative play design I cannot say conclusively, but I certainly don't think #27 is the problem.
    The thing is, the Ravens offense is incredibly predictable. By down, distance, and personnel the defense has so many easy keys to read to know exactly what's coming. In short yardage situations the Ravens methodically march out their heavy package, trot up to the line, and try to run right at the teeth of the defense. It doesn't work because no matter how good your 5 linemen and lead blocker are, the defense has 8 or 9 guys selling out to stop it and they have no fear of getting tricked whatsoever.

    One of the things the top offenses (and top teams) in the league have in common is a cutthroat attitude. They go for broke, they get up to the line quickly and confidently, and they will find your weakness on any given play and exploit it. That takes creativity and confidence as a coach, and we don't have those qualities in our coaching staff.

    For Cam Cameron and John Harbaugh, when they run a typical Ravens play in short yardage and get stuffed, they can breathe a sigh of relief knowing that they can just blame the players for not executing. It's the conservatism, the constant fear of being second guessed, the inferiority complex.

    All you need to know about the effect of coaching on offense is right there. Contrast that with a guy like Mike Shanahan, who called a play-action bomb to the end zone on 4th and 1 in the Superdome vs. New Orleans, with a rookie QB only ahead by one score. They took the defense COMPLETELY by surprise, got a DPI in the end zone and punched in a 1 yard TD the next play.

    Can you imagine how Shanahan would have gotten shit on if that play falls incomplete, especially if Drew Brees marched down the field and tied the game on the next series? Thing is, Shanahan doesn't care about being second guessed. I think that fear keeps Harbaugh up at night, and I think he goes into a cold sweat worrying about how he'd shift blame to the players if it didn't work.




  10. #40
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Except this same shit was happening before Rice signed the new contract.

    Summary of the problem - you can't fix stupid.

    Cam just doesn't know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. He's knowledgeable, just not intelligent. He's a dumb guy who can't outwit a donkey, but he's spent thousands of hours in a film room, so via the Peter Principle, he rose to become an offensive coordinator (and disastrously, a HC, briefly, thus providing additional evidence of the Principle at work).

    He's a "plugger" not a genius.

    He can know all the X's and O's he wants, the problem is he's just a fucking dumbass who consistently gets outwitted by smarter people.

    Most of us get through life without this being a problem, because we aren't in situations where scores are kept, and so our decisions, and their effects, cannot be so easily traced to results like yards, points, and wins. We get out-foxed, we probably never realize it. Cam gets out-foxed, and we can break it down on game film forever.

    We don't need a radical shift in offensive philosophy. We just need somebody smart enough to realize that those milk bottles at the carnival are designed not to fall down, and who won't spend all day throwing balls at them wondering why they keep staying up.




  11. #41
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Except this same shit was happening before Rice signed the new contract.

    Summary of the problem - you can't fix stupid.

    Cam just doesn't know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. He's knowledgeable, just not intelligent. He's a dumb guy who can't outwit a donkey, but he's spent thousands of hours in a film room, so via the Peter Principle, he rose to become an offensive coordinator (and disastrously, a HC, briefly, thus providing additional evidence of the Principle at work).

    He's a "plugger" not a genius.

    He can know all the X's and O's he wants, the problem is he's just a fucking dumbass who consistently gets outwitted by smarter people.

    Most of us get through life without this being a problem, because we aren't in situations where scores are kept, and so our decisions, and their effects, cannot be so easily traced to results like yards, points, and wins. We get out-foxed, we probably never realize it. Cam gets out-foxed, and we can break it down on game film forever.

    We don't need a radical shift in offensive philosophy. We just need somebody smart enough to realize that those milk bottles at the carnival are designed not to fall down, and who won't spend all day throwing balls at them wondering why they keep staying up.

    You got to be the dumbest smart kid I know! Makes me wonder if you know the difference between a sneeze and a wet fart!

    Oppty oopp give me a fucking break.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  12. #42

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    I dont want to speak for anyone else, but the coaches know what play to call better than me.

    From my observation, the coaches probably dont have much confidence in the offensive line's ability to impose it's will on the defense.




  13. #43
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by downside52 View Post
    I dont want to speak for anyone else, but the coaches know what play to call better than me.

    From my observation, the coaches probably dont have much confidence in the offensive line's ability to impose it's will on the defense.
    Ok so you call for a play that takes 4-6 seconds to develop when your QB is only getting an avg of 3 seconds before pressure or contact??





  14. #44

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by downside52 View Post
    I dont want to speak for anyone else, but the coaches know what play to call better than me.

    From my observation, the coaches probably dont have much confidence in the offensive line's ability to impose it's will on the defense.
    Idea:

    Make the offensive line better. 3 years down the road, excuses are still the same. Results WILL vary.

    In any other job, Cam Cameron would have been fired 2 years ago




  15. #45
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Shoeless Joe Jackson was the greatest hitter of the day and Babe Ruth said he copied him 100% but he went out in disgrace too.
    SJJ was a true legend. Had he not had his career end at age 32, I think he would firmly be in that top 30 position players of all-time list, maybe even the top 25. Even as it stands now, despite retiring in his prime, he is still a top 50 player in my rankings.

    I do think saying that he was the best of hitter of his day is a bit of a hyperbole though.

    His entire career in the AL overlapped with Cobb (one of the top 6 position players ever) and Speaker (one of the top 12 position players ever). Jackson's career WAR was just shy of 60, which is really good for a player whose career ended at age 32. However, when you compare that to Speaker's 127 career WAR and Cobb's 145, it's obvious to me that he was the 3RD best hitting OF in just the AL during his career. When you add in Eddie Collins and Napoleon Lajoie, I think it's a very safe conclusion that SJJ was the 5th best American League player of his era.




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