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  1. #46
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..



    Good point but I was going by what the Babe said and Cobb himself said about Joe. Babe said he copied Joe not Cobb. He said Cobb was a pr*ck but he sure could hit.

    Not much hyberpole. Cobb's the all time leading hitter but only by 10 pts higher than Joe at .366 who is third but like mentioned, he was banned at his prime, so it's not much hyberpole.

    Here's what Cobb said about Joe, one of the few guys he was friends with.

    Joe was the finest natural hitter that ever played.
    Joe Jackson hit the ball harder than any man that played baseball.
    I can still see those line drives whistling into the far precincts.
    Jackson's talent was more natural and he learned the game from his grand father who learned it in a Northern POW camp during the
    Civl War.


    “He was the finest natural hitter in the history of the game,” Cobb said of Jackson. Though Jackson and Cobb were usually friendly with each other on and off the field, Cobb used mind games against Jackson, believing he could influence Jackson to “fall off” his game, so he could pull ahead of Jackson in the ranking. “I never could stand losing,” Cobb once said. “Second place didn’t interest me. I had a fire in my belly.”

    During the 1911 series between the Detroit Tigers and the Cleveland Naps, Cobb snapped at Jackson and repeatedly turned his back on him while on the field. Baffled and hurt, Jackson went into a slump, and Cobb snagged the prize – his season average was .420 to Jackson’s .408. To this day, ‘Shoeless’ Joe Jackson still holds baseball’s third-highest career batting average, at .356. Not to be outdone, Cobb holds the all-time highest batting average – with .366.

    In 1951, Ty Cobb said of his friend and rival, “Joe Jackson hit the ball harder than any man ever to play baseball. I can still see those line drives whistling to the far precincts.” While Cobb’s approach to baseball was psychological and scientific, Jackson’s talent was natural, simple and direct. “God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times, and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise,” Jackson said.

    Thirty years after Joe Jackson was banned from baseball, Ty Cobb stopped at a South Carolina liquor store, coincidentally owned and run by Jackson. Jackson didn’t appear to recognize Cobb, so Cobb asked him, “Don’t you know me, Joe?” “Sure I know you, Ty,” Jackson replied, “but I wasn’t sure you wanted to speak to me. A lot of them don’t.”

    Sources:
    David L. Fleitz, Shoeless: The Life and Times of Shoeless Joe Jackson, McFarland, 2001
    Dick Heller, “Ted and Bob Go to Bat for Shoeless Joe,” Insight on the News, 3/23/98
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 12-08-2012 at 04:38 AM.




  2. #47
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Too bad Cobb didn't play pro hockey. He would fit in perfectly.

    I just saw a great hockey movie and the coach was cussing out his team after losing and said this isn't baseball. LOL

    Cobb would have leveled any of those players on or off the ice.

    Here's a heart warming story about how a little kid became
    Ty Cobb's bat boy with the Tigers.

    http://sabr.org/research/ty-cobb-see...gh-eyes-batboy
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 12-08-2012 at 04:44 AM.




  3. #48
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Good point but I was going by what the Babe said and Cobb himself said about Joe. Babe said he copied Joe not Cobb. He said Cobb was a pr*ck but he sure could hit.

    Not much hyberpole. Cobb's the all time leading hitter but only by 10 pts higher than Joe at .366 who is third but like mentioned, he was banned at his prime, so it's not much hyberpole.

    Here's what Cobb said about Joe, one of the few guys he was friends with.

    Joe was the finest natural hitter that ever played.
    Joe Jackson hit the ball harder than any man that played baseball.
    I can still see those line drives whistling into the far precincts.
    Jackson's talent was more natural and he learned the game from his grand father who learned it in a Northern POW camp during the
    Civl War.


    “He was the finest natural hitter in the history of the game,” Cobb said of Jackson. Though Jackson and Cobb were usually friendly with each other on and off the field, Cobb used mind games against Jackson, believing he could influence Jackson to “fall off” his game, so he could pull ahead of Jackson in the ranking. “I never could stand losing,” Cobb once said. “Second place didn’t interest me. I had a fire in my belly.”

    During the 1911 series between the Detroit Tigers and the Cleveland Naps, Cobb snapped at Jackson and repeatedly turned his back on him while on the field. Baffled and hurt, Jackson went into a slump, and Cobb snagged the prize – his season average was .420 to Jackson’s .408. To this day, ‘Shoeless’ Joe Jackson still holds baseball’s third-highest career batting average, at .356. Not to be outdone, Cobb holds the all-time highest batting average – with .366.

    In 1951, Ty Cobb said of his friend and rival, “Joe Jackson hit the ball harder than any man ever to play baseball. I can still see those line drives whistling to the far precincts.” While Cobb’s approach to baseball was psychological and scientific, Jackson’s talent was natural, simple and direct. “God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times, and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise,” Jackson said.

    Thirty years after Joe Jackson was banned from baseball, Ty Cobb stopped at a South Carolina liquor store, coincidentally owned and run by Jackson. Jackson didn’t appear to recognize Cobb, so Cobb asked him, “Don’t you know me, Joe?” “Sure I know you, Ty,” Jackson replied, “but I wasn’t sure you wanted to speak to me. A lot of them don’t.”

    Sources:
    David L. Fleitz, Shoeless: The Life and Times of Shoeless Joe Jackson, McFarland, 2001
    Dick Heller, “Ted and Bob Go to Bat for Shoeless Joe,” Insight on the News, 3/23/98
    First off, Excellent post. I pride myself on being a bit of a baseball historian, but there was stuff there that I didn't even know. I will add that baseball back in day was based so much more on reputation and quotes than statistical realities. Nobody is ever disputing that SJJ was a legend. I just don't put much into Ty Cobb speaking so highly of Jackson as solid proof that Jackson was the best ever...especially when all the statistical evidence shows me that Speaker was the superior player. Back in the primitive era of baseball, a lot of really mediocre players (High Pockets Kelly, Tommy McCarthy, Ray Schalk are the first three that come to mind) got huge recognition and ultimate induction into the HOF based on reputation than actual production.

    Good topic of debate. The AL in the 1905-1935 range was ridiculously stocked with talented position players and pitchers.




  4. #49
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    BTW, why was it called the Dead Ball Era?

    Because it was before they juiced it up? Seems like they're always juicing it up-lol.

    Another point was the equipment they used compared to modern players. Gloves today are like baskets. Players folded them up and put their gloves in their back pockets.

    I was at Cooperstown back in the 70s and saw a lot of that equipment including Cobb's.

    Those hitters would be tearing these pitchers up today with modern equipment.

    Another quip was when Barry Bond passed Babe Ruth on the all time
    HR list and he quipped how much better he was.

    A reporter said did you ever pitch a shut out in the World Series.
    Bond said no. The Babe held the record for scoreless innings in the series that stood until the 60s when another Yankee by the name of White Ford broke them.

    Just think how many homers the Babe would have had if he had been hitting all those years. Babe also saved baseball as a hitter coming along after the scandal.




  5. #50
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Cobb was friends with one other player named Fritz Maisel, the Yankee speedster who set the stolen base record that stood for many years.

    It was finally broken in the 80s I think. He
    was from Bmore and his son was the editor of the Morning Sun during its glory years and was the finest sports writer in the
    country along with Bill Tanton of the Evening Sun and Phil
    Jackman and John Steadman whom Irsay blamed for moving
    the Colts-lol.

    Bob Maisel often wrote about his father and he raced Cobb and once raced the Fish, the famous mayor of Ocean City. Fritz set a record
    of 74 stolen bases for over a 80% success rate.

    Bob said he sat on the Yankee bench as a little kid.

    Here's the link on him called the Catonsville Flash and was a
    scout for the Os at his death.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Maisel
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 12-08-2012 at 10:00 PM.




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