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  1. #37
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..



    Here's a grat movie about the scandal. Every sports fan should see it. Great acting too.
    Bucky Weaver was banned too and he didn't take part but knew about it and didn't rat his friends
    out. He spent the rest of his life trying to be reinstated. He would have made the HOF too.

    Damn shame.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095082/
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  2. #38

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Rice is a great short yardage back, excellent at getting low, angling his body and twisting through small cracks to always be moving forward while being tackled. Our offensive line, on the other hand, appears to be terrible in short yardage situations. They have not been able to open holes when the defense is expecting run. Whether this is due to lack of talent or unimaginative play design I cannot say conclusively, but I certainly don't think #27 is the problem.
    Long days and pleasant nights.




  3. #39

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland of Gilead View Post
    Rice is a great short yardage back, excellent at getting low, angling his body and twisting through small cracks to always be moving forward while being tackled. Our offensive line, on the other hand, appears to be terrible in short yardage situations. They have not been able to open holes when the defense is expecting run. Whether this is due to lack of talent or unimaginative play design I cannot say conclusively, but I certainly don't think #27 is the problem.
    The thing is, the Ravens offense is incredibly predictable. By down, distance, and personnel the defense has so many easy keys to read to know exactly what's coming. In short yardage situations the Ravens methodically march out their heavy package, trot up to the line, and try to run right at the teeth of the defense. It doesn't work because no matter how good your 5 linemen and lead blocker are, the defense has 8 or 9 guys selling out to stop it and they have no fear of getting tricked whatsoever.

    One of the things the top offenses (and top teams) in the league have in common is a cutthroat attitude. They go for broke, they get up to the line quickly and confidently, and they will find your weakness on any given play and exploit it. That takes creativity and confidence as a coach, and we don't have those qualities in our coaching staff.

    For Cam Cameron and John Harbaugh, when they run a typical Ravens play in short yardage and get stuffed, they can breathe a sigh of relief knowing that they can just blame the players for not executing. It's the conservatism, the constant fear of being second guessed, the inferiority complex.

    All you need to know about the effect of coaching on offense is right there. Contrast that with a guy like Mike Shanahan, who called a play-action bomb to the end zone on 4th and 1 in the Superdome vs. New Orleans, with a rookie QB only ahead by one score. They took the defense COMPLETELY by surprise, got a DPI in the end zone and punched in a 1 yard TD the next play.

    Can you imagine how Shanahan would have gotten shit on if that play falls incomplete, especially if Drew Brees marched down the field and tied the game on the next series? Thing is, Shanahan doesn't care about being second guessed. I think that fear keeps Harbaugh up at night, and I think he goes into a cold sweat worrying about how he'd shift blame to the players if it didn't work.




  4. #40
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Except this same shit was happening before Rice signed the new contract.

    Summary of the problem - you can't fix stupid.

    Cam just doesn't know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. He's knowledgeable, just not intelligent. He's a dumb guy who can't outwit a donkey, but he's spent thousands of hours in a film room, so via the Peter Principle, he rose to become an offensive coordinator (and disastrously, a HC, briefly, thus providing additional evidence of the Principle at work).

    He's a "plugger" not a genius.

    He can know all the X's and O's he wants, the problem is he's just a fucking dumbass who consistently gets outwitted by smarter people.

    Most of us get through life without this being a problem, because we aren't in situations where scores are kept, and so our decisions, and their effects, cannot be so easily traced to results like yards, points, and wins. We get out-foxed, we probably never realize it. Cam gets out-foxed, and we can break it down on game film forever.

    We don't need a radical shift in offensive philosophy. We just need somebody smart enough to realize that those milk bottles at the carnival are designed not to fall down, and who won't spend all day throwing balls at them wondering why they keep staying up.




  5. #41
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Except this same shit was happening before Rice signed the new contract.

    Summary of the problem - you can't fix stupid.

    Cam just doesn't know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. He's knowledgeable, just not intelligent. He's a dumb guy who can't outwit a donkey, but he's spent thousands of hours in a film room, so via the Peter Principle, he rose to become an offensive coordinator (and disastrously, a HC, briefly, thus providing additional evidence of the Principle at work).

    He's a "plugger" not a genius.

    He can know all the X's and O's he wants, the problem is he's just a fucking dumbass who consistently gets outwitted by smarter people.

    Most of us get through life without this being a problem, because we aren't in situations where scores are kept, and so our decisions, and their effects, cannot be so easily traced to results like yards, points, and wins. We get out-foxed, we probably never realize it. Cam gets out-foxed, and we can break it down on game film forever.

    We don't need a radical shift in offensive philosophy. We just need somebody smart enough to realize that those milk bottles at the carnival are designed not to fall down, and who won't spend all day throwing balls at them wondering why they keep staying up.

    You got to be the dumbest smart kid I know! Makes me wonder if you know the difference between a sneeze and a wet fart!

    Oppty oopp give me a fucking break.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  6. #42

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    I dont want to speak for anyone else, but the coaches know what play to call better than me.

    From my observation, the coaches probably dont have much confidence in the offensive line's ability to impose it's will on the defense.




  7. #43
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by downside52 View Post
    I dont want to speak for anyone else, but the coaches know what play to call better than me.

    From my observation, the coaches probably dont have much confidence in the offensive line's ability to impose it's will on the defense.
    Ok so you call for a play that takes 4-6 seconds to develop when your QB is only getting an avg of 3 seconds before pressure or contact??





  8. #44

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by downside52 View Post
    I dont want to speak for anyone else, but the coaches know what play to call better than me.

    From my observation, the coaches probably dont have much confidence in the offensive line's ability to impose it's will on the defense.
    Idea:

    Make the offensive line better. 3 years down the road, excuses are still the same. Results WILL vary.

    In any other job, Cam Cameron would have been fired 2 years ago




  9. #45

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Shoeless Joe Jackson was the greatest hitter of the day and Babe Ruth said he copied him 100% but he went out in disgrace too.
    SJJ was a true legend. Had he not had his career end at age 32, I think he would firmly be in that top 30 position players of all-time list, maybe even the top 25. Even as it stands now, despite retiring in his prime, he is still a top 50 player in my rankings.

    I do think saying that he was the best of hitter of his day is a bit of a hyperbole though.

    His entire career in the AL overlapped with Cobb (one of the top 6 position players ever) and Speaker (one of the top 12 position players ever). Jackson's career WAR was just shy of 60, which is really good for a player whose career ended at age 32. However, when you compare that to Speaker's 127 career WAR and Cobb's 145, it's obvious to me that he was the 3RD best hitting OF in just the AL during his career. When you add in Eddie Collins and Napoleon Lajoie, I think it's a very safe conclusion that SJJ was the 5th best American League player of his era.




  10. #46
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Good point but I was going by what the Babe said and Cobb himself said about Joe. Babe said he copied Joe not Cobb. He said Cobb was a pr*ck but he sure could hit.

    Not much hyberpole. Cobb's the all time leading hitter but only by 10 pts higher than Joe at .366 who is third but like mentioned, he was banned at his prime, so it's not much hyberpole.

    Here's what Cobb said about Joe, one of the few guys he was friends with.

    Joe was the finest natural hitter that ever played.
    Joe Jackson hit the ball harder than any man that played baseball.
    I can still see those line drives whistling into the far precincts.
    Jackson's talent was more natural and he learned the game from his grand father who learned it in a Northern POW camp during the
    Civl War.


    “He was the finest natural hitter in the history of the game,” Cobb said of Jackson. Though Jackson and Cobb were usually friendly with each other on and off the field, Cobb used mind games against Jackson, believing he could influence Jackson to “fall off” his game, so he could pull ahead of Jackson in the ranking. “I never could stand losing,” Cobb once said. “Second place didn’t interest me. I had a fire in my belly.”

    During the 1911 series between the Detroit Tigers and the Cleveland Naps, Cobb snapped at Jackson and repeatedly turned his back on him while on the field. Baffled and hurt, Jackson went into a slump, and Cobb snagged the prize – his season average was .420 to Jackson’s .408. To this day, ‘Shoeless’ Joe Jackson still holds baseball’s third-highest career batting average, at .356. Not to be outdone, Cobb holds the all-time highest batting average – with .366.

    In 1951, Ty Cobb said of his friend and rival, “Joe Jackson hit the ball harder than any man ever to play baseball. I can still see those line drives whistling to the far precincts.” While Cobb’s approach to baseball was psychological and scientific, Jackson’s talent was natural, simple and direct. “God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times, and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise,” Jackson said.

    Thirty years after Joe Jackson was banned from baseball, Ty Cobb stopped at a South Carolina liquor store, coincidentally owned and run by Jackson. Jackson didn’t appear to recognize Cobb, so Cobb asked him, “Don’t you know me, Joe?” “Sure I know you, Ty,” Jackson replied, “but I wasn’t sure you wanted to speak to me. A lot of them don’t.”

    Sources:
    David L. Fleitz, Shoeless: The Life and Times of Shoeless Joe Jackson, McFarland, 2001
    Dick Heller, “Ted and Bob Go to Bat for Shoeless Joe,” Insight on the News, 3/23/98
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 12-08-2012 at 03:38 AM.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  11. #47
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    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Too bad Cobb didn't play pro hockey. He would fit in perfectly.

    I just saw a great hockey movie and the coach was cussing out his team after losing and said this isn't baseball. LOL

    Cobb would have leveled any of those players on or off the ice.

    Here's a heart warming story about how a little kid became
    Ty Cobb's bat boy with the Tigers.

    http://sabr.org/research/ty-cobb-see...gh-eyes-batboy
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 12-08-2012 at 03:44 AM.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  12. #48

    Re: Why Ray Rice is not getting the BALL more..

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Good point but I was going by what the Babe said and Cobb himself said about Joe. Babe said he copied Joe not Cobb. He said Cobb was a pr*ck but he sure could hit.

    Not much hyberpole. Cobb's the all time leading hitter but only by 10 pts higher than Joe at .366 who is third but like mentioned, he was banned at his prime, so it's not much hyberpole.

    Here's what Cobb said about Joe, one of the few guys he was friends with.

    Joe was the finest natural hitter that ever played.
    Joe Jackson hit the ball harder than any man that played baseball.
    I can still see those line drives whistling into the far precincts.
    Jackson's talent was more natural and he learned the game from his grand father who learned it in a Northern POW camp during the
    Civl War.


    “He was the finest natural hitter in the history of the game,” Cobb said of Jackson. Though Jackson and Cobb were usually friendly with each other on and off the field, Cobb used mind games against Jackson, believing he could influence Jackson to “fall off” his game, so he could pull ahead of Jackson in the ranking. “I never could stand losing,” Cobb once said. “Second place didn’t interest me. I had a fire in my belly.”

    During the 1911 series between the Detroit Tigers and the Cleveland Naps, Cobb snapped at Jackson and repeatedly turned his back on him while on the field. Baffled and hurt, Jackson went into a slump, and Cobb snagged the prize – his season average was .420 to Jackson’s .408. To this day, ‘Shoeless’ Joe Jackson still holds baseball’s third-highest career batting average, at .356. Not to be outdone, Cobb holds the all-time highest batting average – with .366.

    In 1951, Ty Cobb said of his friend and rival, “Joe Jackson hit the ball harder than any man ever to play baseball. I can still see those line drives whistling to the far precincts.” While Cobb’s approach to baseball was psychological and scientific, Jackson’s talent was natural, simple and direct. “God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times, and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise,” Jackson said.

    Thirty years after Joe Jackson was banned from baseball, Ty Cobb stopped at a South Carolina liquor store, coincidentally owned and run by Jackson. Jackson didn’t appear to recognize Cobb, so Cobb asked him, “Don’t you know me, Joe?” “Sure I know you, Ty,” Jackson replied, “but I wasn’t sure you wanted to speak to me. A lot of them don’t.”

    Sources:
    David L. Fleitz, Shoeless: The Life and Times of Shoeless Joe Jackson, McFarland, 2001
    Dick Heller, “Ted and Bob Go to Bat for Shoeless Joe,” Insight on the News, 3/23/98
    First off, Excellent post. I pride myself on being a bit of a baseball historian, but there was stuff there that I didn't even know. I will add that baseball back in day was based so much more on reputation and quotes than statistical realities. Nobody is ever disputing that SJJ was a legend. I just don't put much into Ty Cobb speaking so highly of Jackson as solid proof that Jackson was the best ever...especially when all the statistical evidence shows me that Speaker was the superior player. Back in the primitive era of baseball, a lot of really mediocre players (High Pockets Kelly, Tommy McCarthy, Ray Schalk are the first three that come to mind) got huge recognition and ultimate induction into the HOF based on reputation than actual production.

    Good topic of debate. The AL in the 1905-1935 range was ridiculously stocked with talented position players and pitchers.




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