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  1. #16

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens



    What Tony said earlier, "right player, right price". In my mind there's no question Joe is the right player for this franchise going forward however his price needs to land somewhere close to those of Cassell/Schaub/Fitzpatrick and no where near Manning/Brady/Brees.
    While I'm dissappointed with Joe's up and down season (some of that attributed to Cam) I'm looking forward to the possibility of Joe operating under a new OC who brings creativity and a system that caters to the strength of it's personnel. We can't go back to the days of really bad QB play in this QB driven league.




  2. #17

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    What Tony said earlier, "right player, right price". In my mind there's no question Joe is the right player for this franchise going forward however his price needs to land somewhere close to those of Cassell/Schaub/Fitzpatrick and no where near Manning/Brady/Brees.
    While I'm dissappointed with Joe's up and down season (some of that attributed to Cam) I'm looking forward to the possibility of Joe operating under a new OC who brings creativity and a system that caters to the strength of it's personnel. We can't go back to the days of really bad QB play in this QB driven league.
    Here's a problem. You basically have 15 other teams that currently have "really bad QB" play. So you have 15 GMs/coaches/coordinators looking at Flacco and saying, "I can fix that...and we'll pay him top dollar to prove it." As much as I would like to think that Flacco's inconsistent play would drive his price down, I really don't think it will.

    I think the Ravens really messed this up by not giving Flacco at least one year without Cameron.




  3. #18
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    As much as I would like to think that Flacco's inconsistent play would drive his price down, I really don't think it will.

    I think the Ravens really messed this up by not giving Flacco at least one year without Cameron.
    Flacco's play won't drive the price down for the reason you said. There are a lot of teams with crap QB's and Flacco would be a huge upgrade for them. Look at what Kevin Kolb, Matt Flynn, Matt Cassel and others got contract wise. It's very hard to find a good QB.




  4. #19

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Here's a problem. You basically have 15 other teams that currently have "really bad QB" play. So you have 15 GMs/coaches/coordinators looking at Flacco and saying, "I can fix that...and we'll pay him top dollar to prove it." As much as I would like to think that Flacco's inconsistent play would drive his price down, I really don't think it will.

    I think the Ravens really messed this up by not giving Flacco at least one year without Cameron.
    Agree. There would be a strong Market for Joe no doubt and seeing him go and thrive in another system would kill this fanbase more so than Lee Evan's drop pass in last year's championship game.




  5. #20
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Ravens fucked up on this one for years we never had a decent QB so we don't know how to handle these situation its like Wicked said a few post back, they don't know what they have with Joe, under Cam system joe doesn't fit, now its his contract year under the same system and he has regressed, now they don't know what he could have looked like in other system to further evaluate if this is the real Joe or is there more to Joe. They should have shit canned Cam last season and go with someone new that way they could see where they are at with Joe. Now the question is what are they going to do, they got some tough decisions to make, Ed Reed could be gone, Ray could be gone, Jones, Boldin and then they have the unkown of Flacco can he get better with a new system? or is he going be the same ole average Joe?




  6. #21
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    Ravens fucked up on this one for years we never had a decent QB so we don't know how to handle these situation its like Wicked said a few post back, they don't know what they have with Joe, under Cam system joe doesn't fit, now its his contract year under the same system and he has regressed, now they don't know what he could have looked like in other system to further evaluate if this is the real Joe or is there more to Joe. They should have shit canned Cam last season and go with someone new that way they could see where they are at with Joe. Now the question is what are they going to do, they got some tough decisions to make, Ed Reed could be gone, Ray could be gone, Jones, Boldin and then they have the unkown of Flacco can he get better with a new system? or is he going be the same ole average Joe?
    Agreed. They really screwed up by not canning Cameron last year. I wanted them to take a look at Bruce Arians and look at what he is doing in Indy now.




  7. #22

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    IMHO, the Ravens royally fucked themselves by not firing Cam 2 years ago.

    There is an underlying belief (a strong one by many fans on this board) that Joe just isn't going to get any better under this system with Cam. That's really all it is though...belief.

    They had a chance to really see what they have a couple years ago...to see for sure. Personally, while I think Cam is holding Joe back to a degree, I also think that Joe has some real imitations. That said, now the team is really backed into a corner here.

    This isn't the Chargers situation where they could let go of an above average Drew Brees (that's really all he was at the time). They had invested a top 4 pick for Rivers who had sat for 2 years in preparation for the starting job.

    We don't have anybody and would likely have to go with freaking Tyrod Taylor or a random rookie who wouldn't be a high draft pick.

    So they have to sign him and he has the organization by the balls and they know it...and it's all their fault.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #23
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Non-story. Joe has shown the brilliance to win games despite the idiot Harbaugh and his lackey Cam Cameron.

    Hopefully we will get coaching here that has no fear to pull the trigger. Peyton Manning would look like shit under this regime.




  9. #24
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Non-story. Joe has shown the brilliance to win games despite the idiot Harbaugh and his lackey Cam Cameron.

    Hopefully we will get coaching here that has no fear to pull the trigger. Peyton Manning would look like shit under this regime.
    I don't think anyone could really argue against this. I mean Manning might make a few better decisions here and there, like choosing not to throw a deep ball, but everytime I see Joe chuck one deep, no one is really open underneath.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  10. #25

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    They had a chance to really see what they have a couple years ago...to see for sure. Personally, while I think Cam is holding Joe back to a degree, I also think that Joe has some real imitations. That said, now the team is really backed into a corner here.
    Just thinking out loud....but is it possible the Ravens feel they already know what they have in Flacco? An above-average QB that is prone to maddeningly inconsistent performances?

    It seems like the premise is that the Ravens have this big decision to make. Maybe they've already made it ("right player, right price") and they are more than prepared to move along without him next season. Remember, this is an organization (general manager) that felt confident enough with giving one first year head coach Scott Mitchell and Tony Banks, and another first year head coach Kyle Boller and Troy Smith.




  11. #26
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    IMO, the Ravens are going to franchise Flacco, and then wait to see what kind of money other QBs like Cutler and Matt Ryan get. Ryan is not a FA until 2014, but the speculation is that the Falcons are going to extend him this off-season. The Ravens can overpay Flacco to a point, but if he wants Top 3 QB money, they have to be prepared to move on from him.




  12. #27
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    There are only two quarterbacks in the league who wouldn't look lost in this offense, IMO. Peyton (who would morph the offense into his own version) and Rodgers. Flacco is not good enough to do what they want him to do, which is, run Cam's system and be consistent. But that's not an indictment. Like I said earlier, I believe there are only 2 quarterbacks who can. On the other hand, Harbaugh (and Cam to some degree, but mainly Harbaugh, since he's the HC) is not good enough to coach his franchise quarterback up to the level needed to win a Super Bowl. And there are at least 12 head coaches who could. So to me it isn't a question of over paying Flacco. It's a question of determining if he has the right people around him and then deciding what to do about it.




  13. #28
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    I made this same argument in another thread. Flacco is to good a player and difficult to replace for the Ravens to just let him walk. But he's not so good that you can tie a significant portion of your cap and him, which keeps you from upgrading the players around him. Flacco needs a good team to succeed. He's not going to put the team on his shoulders and carry them like Brees or Brady. And that's ok. The problem, when it all boils down to it, is Flacco's opinion of himself and his abilities is far higher than what it actually is.

    Flacco is on pace to throw for what 25 TD's. If your paying 18 million a year, you have to get more than that.




  14. #29
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I made this same argument in another thread. Flacco is to good a player and difficult to replace for the Ravens to just let him walk. But he's not so good that you can tie a significant portion of your cap and him, which keeps you from upgrading the players around him. Flacco needs a good team to succeed. He's not going to put the team on his shoulders and carry them like Brees or Brady. And that's ok. The problem, when it all boils down to it, is Flacco's opinion of himself and his abilities is far higher than what it actually is.

    Flacco is on pace to throw for what 25 TD's. If your paying 18 million a year, you have to get more than that.


    According to ESPN, Flacco is ranked #19 in the league so far this year in terms of passing stats. IMO, Flacco would need to rank a lot higher than that to justify kind of money he wants. If the Ravens want to be a run-first/balanced offense, then do they really need a $100+ million QB?

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...rterbackRating




  15. #30

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by TL24x7 View Post
    Some would say that the coaching staff has held Flacco back – specifically Cam Cameron. On the surface it’s hard to argue with that but might there be a reason that the team has held Flacco back? Does the coaching staff see his limitations and therefore they dummy down the offense?

    While most will tag Cameron with a plethora of disparaging nicknames, some of which can’t even be printed here, let’s face it, the guy knows more about football than 99% of the fans out there. This has been his life for nearly 30 years and even if he was a 1-15, one year and done head coach, he was one of only 32 coaches of his kind at one point in his career.

    So it stands to reason that he is aware of how this is going down, right?

    And if he’s not, Cameron’s boss John Harbaugh has to see the problems, right? How could he accept such ongoing offensive inconsistencies unless he is ok with the way things are being handled?

    Clearly there’s a major disconnect.

    So how do you gauge Flacco’s market value?

    Continue reading HERE
    The argument of Cam/Harbs seeing something in Flacco that would force them to dummy things down pisses me off the most out of everything. Every #1 QB must be afforded an opportunity to run the full playbook, and fail, or else THERE WILL NEVER BE PROGRESS OR DEVELOPMENT. I agree that you may hold stuff back in rookie and 2nd yr, but no way do you it now in Flaccos case. QBs learn from their mistakes. The great ones don't make them again. The shit QBs continue making them again. Maybe Joe would continue to make those mistakes, but at least then, they wouldve determine his true value as a starting QB. How can you truly determine Flacco's worth if they've held stuff back. Another reason why Cam and Harbs should be fired.

    I dont think they've held stuff back. When did Cam ever have a different system? Never. Cam is shit and if Harbs doesnt get rid of him soon, he is shit too.
    Last edited by ravensnhokies; 12-05-2012 at 01:29 PM.




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