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12-06-2012, 08:30 AM #133Steve Flacco, Apparently
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Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens
My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron
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Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens
Maybe Jim Zorn was really good?
Frankly I'd be happy with Joe from 2010 every year, and if he didn't progress from there, I wouldn't mind, he was pretty efficient and if we had a better team in 2010, I think we would have got to the SB pretty easily. If it wasn't for a second half lapse @ Pittsburgh, we would have slaughtered the Jets at our place in the AFCCG.
Don't get me wrong, Cam is an idiot, no questions there.
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12-06-2012, 08:35 AM #135
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Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens
"Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore
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Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens
did you really call Eli Manning Elite? If hes Elite so is about 5 other Qbs, including Flacco, to add to Brees Rodgers Manning and Brady. You called Brees Elite for being over 100 rating, and saying Flacco's best is only 93.6, well Eli's best is still worse than that and came much later in his career. I think youre mixing arguments here. if its because hes a SB winner, well than Trent Dilfer was also Elite and that certainly doesnt make sense.
I think that would be more correct but even that is debatable. Cam might be seeing his first 4000 yard passer this year, id call that improvement if only minimal. Something Brees and Rivers never even got close to. comparing "todays" nfl to 5 years ago is a big change but the fact is defenses are more pass oriented now too so the fact flacco is putting up similar and even better numbers, in the exact same system with less talent, than either says more than people want to admit.-JAB
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Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens
I didn't mean at exactly year 5, I meant AFTER year 5 at some point, Eli for whatever reason has stepped his game up to the top level. Of course it's possible that Joe may do that one day, but it doesn't look like it at this point, that's all I'm saying.
Maybe I was a little off on calling Brees ELITE by year 3, he was still a pretty good QB though.
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Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens
his yards are up, but his numbers are pretty much the same and he still throws a shitton of INTs. i could make the argument that once his talent got better his stats reflected that as his ypc is the only thing that drastically changed and i think Nicks Cruz and even Plaxico had a lot to do with that.
I find it hard to remember Brees days in SD but for the life of me I cant remember him being asked to throw as often or as deep (even in Cams system) as Flacco is. Probably in part because he wasnt known for having a big arm and was struggling for years to adapt to the pro game. Brees was exactly what youre calling a game manager at that time, the question was if he could continue to progress AND recover from that injury. Really his 2004 season was his only great year and some thought that was a fluke. in his case yes he did succeed, and became an Elite QB in a system designed for him. Something I thought all OC were suppose to do.-JAB
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Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens
Take stats out of the equation for a minute, because I think last year might have been Joe's best year in terms of decision making etc.
Remember 2010 the amount of out routes/comebacks he would throw to a great route runner in Mason, he completed a lot of those. Over the past two years the low completion percentages deep balls have been thrown a lot more.
Point being stats, especially bottom line stats, leave so much out. Going mainly by stats will lead... to... well 3 pages of trying to clarify your point.
Flacco is good, and I don't think he's regressed, I think he's plateaued, in this offense.
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Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens
I think thats the main difference in people that think he would be better vs he is what he is. just looking at stats is going to say one thing, putting context on those stats says a completely different imo. I think more points to him being closer to elite in another system than remaining the same. thats simply by looking at the fact that in a more modern offense he wont be asked to throw a large percentage of passes downfield and his completion percentage will rise accordingly.
imo, Flacco can make some throws that not even those Elite QBs can make. thats not to say hes collectively better, but that he has potential to do things even they cant based on their physical limitations. Im not 100% sure hell ever put the rest of those things together to become that, but because of that he certainly has potential to be in their tier in the right system.
The PFF crowd will never accept that. Stats are all that matters to some. sadly.-JAB
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Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens
If you just go by stats, Elway was a slightly above average QB. I think he was one of the best to ever play the position, with an arm like Bert Jones and a better scrambler than Fran Tarkenton. But he played his entire career on offenses that started with the run, even when they weren't particularly good at it.
I've seen Flacco put this team on his shoulders and put it in position to win in crunch time. It hasn't always worked out to a win, but it wasn't because he didn't play his position to a high level. He's not The Problem on this team, though at times he's been part of it, I think.
He doesn't typically come out of the gate strong. He seems to need to warm up- to work his way into the rhythm of the offense. The playcalling doesn't always- or even usually- reflect that. I don't mind the run, run, short pass, punt for a series or two in the early going of the game, though it seems to drive some folks here crazy. I don't mind it because early runs, even for little gain, are like body punches in boxing: they start to take the legs from the defense. They give the o-line a physical and mental edge over the d-line. If you can do that and string together a couple of first downs and, with Koch, win the early field position battle, you're in pretty good shape in a close game. You can wait until the third or fourth offensive series, usually, to start really mixing it up and looking for the jugular.
We have Ray Rice, Vonta Leach, and a pretty good back-up RB in Bernard Pierce. Our offensive line is big, but it isn't exactly stellar in pass protection. More early runs, even if it leads to punting the ball more, only helps them out as the game goes on. It will also help Flacco get into the flow of the game, and improve playaction. It seems to me we ran a lot more playaction and ran it more effectively his first couple of seasons than over the last couple.
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12-06-2012, 11:35 AM #144Hall Of Fame Poster
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