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  1. #16
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...



    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenalytics View Post
    Point I'm trying to make is that everyone needs a little perspective. I know most of our wins haven't been pretty. But we're still 9-3. Every team has a couple of games where they just collapse.

    I know most people think losing to Batch at home is unacceptable, but horrible losses like that aren't uncommon nor are they a total indictment of how good a coach and his staff is.

    Everyone needs to breathe.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    nobody wants to hear that sensical argument, theyd rather panic and blame everybody they can. Im sure the giants were glad they got rid of coughlin for losing to the dreadful redskins twice last year, it worked out pretty well for them....
    This board is unbearable when we lose. Sure be pissed that we lost, I am but damn don't throw in the towel. With the way people talk it's like we just lost a freaking elimination game or have lost 7 in a row. 9-3 means nothing. People are so busy bitching that they don't realize that the Ravens can lose two more games and still win the division. That is how big their lead is right now.




  2. #17
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    The reason (IMO) everyone is ready to throw their hands up and say "ah fuck it", is because the keep it close to the vest, limit mistakes by minimizing risk has caused this team to lose games we shoulda won and won close games that shouldn't be close.

    Now I don't pretend to know whats going on behind closed doors, maybe the coaches look at the team and go "these dudes suck, we gotta play this way to have a chance". If that's the case, okay, I disagree. But judging by the same type of game plan and foot off the pedal when were up (if that happens before the 4th quarter with a minute to go) tells me this is the approach no matter what.
    It just occurred to me--& I'd appreciate it if the usual subspects like you & Cap'n Sliver would chime in on the subject--that what really, really, really pisses Ravens fans off about Harbaugh's risk-avoidancce approach isn't that it's conservative, or boring. Helzbelz, if there's any fan base in the NFL that's used to that & OK with it it's right here--it won this team a frakkin' Super Bowl, dinnit?

    The really, really annoying thing about Harbaughesque football is that it's timid.

    Conservative football is when you say to the opponent,
    We're gonna take the air out of the ball & jam it down your throat on the ground & eat up 7-8 minutes & pound it in for 6 at the end. Try & stop us.
    Or,
    You stopped us? Bully for you--we'll pin you back against your own goal & dare you to move the ball against our D. We'll hit like a ton of bricks & chase your QB out of the pocket & hassle you into making mistakes--& when you do we'll jump all over them.
    But the Ravens don't play like that anymore. It's almost as if they're tiptoeing through the game, not taking any chances, hold onto the ball, no passing over the middle to risk an INT, cobble together a first down here & a first down there & if you only get a FG hey, points is points, & if that doesn't work out then punt, & don't give them an undeserved short field on a kick return, & on defense keep everything in front of you, don't risk crazy blitzes, don't gamble on passes (unless you're wearing #20)...& hope to catch a break or two more than the opponent & be hanging onto the lead & no serious injuries when the final gun goes off.

    (I'm trying to think of a good analogy for this but I'm coming up empty...)

    Risk avoidance may be the best strategy to maximize wins without a truly dominant team, but it's really unsatisfying, because eking out* victories is not what most of us watch football to see. We want to see our team making the thrilling &/or beautiful plays &/or imposing its will on the other team. We get enough plodding--heck, we do enough plodding--in our daily lives (& while it may be the only sound & sensible way to live when you have important items like families that should not be put at needless risk, it doesn't feel much more satisfying then either).

    Remember when the Flaming Thumbtacks were supposedly the class of the league & the Ravens had to go to Tennessee to face them in the playoffs? Remember what Billick said?
    When you go in the lion's den, you don't tippy toe in you carry a spear, you go in screaming like a banshee, you kick whatever doors in, and say, 'Where's the SOB?' If you go in any other way you're gonna lose.
    Bluntly, that's exactly what the Steelers did last Sunday. And they made it stick.

    Can you imagine this Ravens team, after a year's worth of risk-avoidance & tippytoeing & eking out, being able to do the same thing come the postseason (or the game @CIN if they need it to make the dance)? I have my doubts. And that really pisses me off.



    * 7 of the Ravens' 9 wins (the 2 exceptions were CIN and OAK) were by 1 score or less, or should have been (gift FG late in the game @CLE)--as were 2 of the 3 losses. (No wonder the pundits said before Sunday that this was the least impressive 9-2 team they'd ever seen.)




  3. #18
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    It just occurred to me--& I'd appreciate it if the usual subspects like you & Cap'n Sliver would chime in on the subject--that what really, really, really pisses Ravens fans off about Harbaugh's risk-avoidancce approach isn't that it's conservative, or boring. Helzbelz, if there's any fan base in the NFL that's used to that & OK with it it's right here--it won this team a frakkin' Super Bowl, dinnit?

    The really, really annoying thing about Harbaughesque football is that it's timid.

    Conservative football is when you say to the opponent, Or, But the Ravens don't play like that anymore. It's almost as if they're tiptoeing through the game, not taking any chances, hold onto the ball, no passing over the middle to risk an INT, cobble together a first down here & a first down there & if you only get a FG hey, points is points, & if that doesn't work out then punt, & don't give them an undeserved short field on a kick return, & on defense keep everything in front of you, don't risk crazy blitzes, don't gamble on passes (unless you're wearing #20)...& hope to catch a break or two more than the opponent & be hanging onto the lead & no serious injuries when the final gun goes off.

    (I'm trying to think of a good analogy for this but I'm coming up empty...)

    Risk avoidance may be the best strategy to maximize wins without a truly dominant team, but it's really unsatisfying, because eking out* victories is not what most of us watch football to see. We want to see our team making the thrilling &/or beautiful plays &/or imposing its will on the other team. We get enough plodding--heck, we do enough plodding--in our daily lives (& while it may be the only sound & sensible way to live when you have important items like families that should not be put at needless risk, it doesn't feel much more satisfying then either).

    Remember when the Flaming Thumbtacks were supposedly the class of the league & the Ravens had to go to Tennessee to face them in the playoffs? Remember what Billick said?
    Bluntly, that's exactly what the Steelers did last Sunday. And they made it stick.

    Can you imagine this Ravens team, after a year's worth of risk-avoidance & tippytoeing & eking out, being able to do the same thing come the postseason (or the game @CIN if they need it to make the dance)? I have my doubts. And that really pisses me off.



    * 7 of the Ravens' 9 wins (the 2 exceptions were CIN and OAK) were by 1 score or less, or should have been (gift FG late in the game @CLE)--as were 2 of the 3 losses. (No wonder the pundits said before Sunday that this was the least impressive 9-2 team they'd ever seen.)
    The Ravens coaching staff is damned if they do and damned if they don't. When they get aggressive and we lose people bitch too. Perfect example, the The hair's strip sack of Flacco in 2009. The Ravens were going for the first down in that situation, a first down that all but ices the game. They were playing to win the game. But Polamalu made a great play and every one bitched and moaned all week about how the Ravens should have been playing not lose and run the ball in that situation. Like I said, damned if you do and if you don't. Hell even when the Ravens win people bitch. People are going to bitch no matter what the team does. That's what happens in a spoiled fan base.




  4. #19
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    It just occurred to me--& I'd appreciate it if the usual subspects like you & Cap'n Sliver would chime in on the subject--that what really, really, really pisses Ravens fans off about Harbaugh's risk-avoidancce approach isn't that it's conservative, or boring. Helzbelz, if there's any fan base in the NFL that's used to that & OK with it it's right here--it won this team a frakkin' Super Bowl, dinnit?

    The really, really annoying thing about Harbaughesque football is that it's timid.
    I think what's most frustrating is that it's the same approach every week regardless of opponent.

    A game that comes to mind is the Titans playoff game in 2008, we were clearly outmatched that game. The mistakes we forced them into while making few ourselves won that game. I was fine with that approach for a game like that.

    The Chargers last week have a terrible o-line and a beat up somewhat undersized D. I felt (I was drinking so I don't remember the whole game) that was another keep it close, take no chances game, the Chargers suck, that game did not need to be close.


    For me, it's week in week out, Go slow keep it close, if were down or up 3 play zone on D keep everyone in front of you, don't blitz (at least to exotically or too many people (don't wanna get burned)), it's okay if they move the ball, once they get in the Red Zone we'll tighten up and hope that keeps it close and low scoring.

    On offense, it's run, run pass out routes and 9 routes. If we pass on 1st it's never(or hardly ever) a slant or a crossing route and if it fails it's always a run from under center to Rice up the middle.

    The game plan NEVER changes until it's too close for comfort or we're down. I Will never stop watching the Ravens and I don't think the season is over, but I can't breathe when I watch this team. I know what I am going to get as far as the approach, the outcome is up in the air.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  5. #20
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenalytics View Post
    Point I'm trying to make is that everyone needs a little perspective. I know most of our wins haven't been pretty. But we're still 9-3. Every team has a couple of games where they just collapse.

    I know most people think losing to Batch at home is unacceptable, but horrible losses like that aren't uncommon nor are they a total indictment of how good a coach and his staff is.

    Everyone needs to breathe.
    I don't give a who what, who those teams lost to.

    Losing to Batch, in your own place, in a game that could have clinched the division, for a team of this caliber, is a disgrace. Inexcusable doesn't begin to describe how bad of a loss that is.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  6. #21
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    The Ravens coaching staff is damned if they do and damned if they don't. When they get aggressive and we lose people bitch too. Perfect example, the The hair's strip sack of Flacco in 2009. The Ravens were going for the first down in that situation, a first down that all but ices the game. They were playing to win the game. But Polamalu made a great play and every one bitched and moaned all week about how the Ravens should have been playing not lose and run the ball in that situation. Like I said, damned if you do and if you don't. Hell even when the Ravens win people bitch. People are going to bitch no matter what the team does. That's what happens in a spoiled fan base.
    IIRC the reason The Hair makes that play is that the left side of the OL screwed up its assignments. The next year at Heinz Field, Flacco had time to hit Housh in the EZ for the winning score because Heap saw Polamullet blitzing & came across the formation to punk him. If you're going to take a chance you should at least execute it properly--otherwise you're just being foolish. (Cf. Oakland going for it on 4th down near midfield in the 1st quarter of their game here--gutsy & probably very heady call, but you can't have your QB tripped by his own lineman as he takes the snap.)

    IMHO you are way off based with your complaints about a "spolied fan base." Ravens fans have been told over & over for years now that their FO drafts exceptionally well & is (collectively) a top-notch judge of talent & handles the cap superbly to assemble year-in & year-out a roster with significantly better talent than the league average. A team with better than average talent ought to be winning more often than not, and ought to be competitive in the playoffs on a regular basis. That's being logical, not spoiled.

    Now if you want to argue that the talent is in fact not there, go right ahead. I haven't been terribly happy with the last few drafts & some of the personnel decisions that have been made & I am starting to wonder if it isn't time for Bama to ease Mal Moore into retirement so that Oz can hand things over to deCosta & take over as their AD. But if you have no quibbles with the abilities of the guys on the roster, then you have to look elsewhere for the mostly uninspiring performace of the team this year, & my money is on the "lions led by donkeys" conjecture.




  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    IMHO you are way off based with your complaints about a "spolied fan base." Ravens fans have been told over & over for years now that their FO drafts exceptionally well & is (collectively) a top-notch judge of talent & handles the cap superbly to assemble year-in & year-out a roster with significantly better talent than the league average. A team with better than average talent ought to be winning more often than not, and ought to be competitive in the playoffs on a regular basis. That's being logical, not spoiled.
    Last I checked we do win way more than we lose and have gone deep in playoffs every year under Harbs. So the team is doing exactly what they SHOULD be doing, but for some people, that's not good enough. Despite being a dropped pass from the SuperBowl last year and having the second best record in the AFC this year, people are calling for wholesale coaching firings and for our QB to be replaced. That's spoiled. Plain and simple. It's a shitty, entitled, and unreasonable way to be a fan.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  8. #23
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Last I checked we do win way more than we lose and have gone deep in playoffs every year under Harbs. So the team is doing exactly what they SHOULD be doing, but for some people, that's not good enough. Despite being a dropped pass from the SuperBowl last year and having the second best record in the AFC this year, people are calling for wholesale coaching firings and for our QB to be replaced. That's spoiled. Plain and simple. It's a shitty, entitled, and unreasonable way to be a fan.




  9. #24

    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Put pressure on this coaching staff and they'll often brain lock, they'll choke.

    When we win those dramatic games by driving down the field to score the winning TD or FG, or hold onto a slim lead through our defense, it's usually the players making big plays/stops, and almost never because of a brilliant decision or adjustment by our coaches.

    They're the Tony Romo of coaches.




  10. #25
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    Put pressure on this coaching staff and they'll often brain lock, they'll choke.

    When we win those dramatic games by driving down the field to score the winning TD or FG, or hold onto a slim lead through our defense, it's usually the players making big plays/stops, and almost never because of a brilliant decision or adjustment by our coaches.

    They're the Tony Romo of coaches.
    Oh. But it's Harbaugh's fault that Kruger drew a roughing the passer penalty that put the Steelers in field goal range on that last drive. It is Harbaugh's fault that Flacco throws the ball into double or triple coverage. If it's the players that make the plays it is also the players that blow the plays.




  11. #26
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    Oh. But it's Harbaugh's fault that Kruger drew a roughing the passer penalty that put the Steelers in field goal range on that last drive. It is Harbaugh's fault that Flacco throws the ball into double or triple coverage. If it's the players that make the plays it is also the players that blow the plays.
    I just watched the replay on NFL network, there were definitely plays that we just missed (read:the players messed up). BUT those are the plays we seem to consistently missing. That's were coaching needs to come in and it just hasn't changed. We keep doing the same thing over and over and keep missing the same shit.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  12. #27
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenalytics View Post
    Point I'm trying to make is that everyone needs a little perspective. I know most of our wins haven't been pretty. But we're still 9-3. Every team has a couple of games where they just collapse.

    I know most people think losing to Batch at home is unacceptable, but horrible losses like that aren't uncommon nor are they a total indictment of how good a coach and his staff is.

    Everyone needs to breathe.
    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    We lost to JAX and Seattle last year. We were Evans remembering how to squeeze a football from the Super Bowl.

    This lost sucks, but it didn't end our playoff chances.

    Yes, every good team has bad losses or close wins they had to eek out. I agree. The problem is that every good or great team also has stretches where they seem dominant and play 60 minutes of solid football for multiple games throughout a season...even teams that have had average regular seasons and caught fire at the end like the Giants have a few games where they put it all together. The Ravens have one game this year that they played 60 minutes of solid football against a good team (week 1 against Cincinnati) and on top of that it was on opening night against a divisional opponent on national tv shortly after their beloved previous owner died. Their emotions were sky high. You can make arguments for the Oakland game or New England but honestly in both games the defense wasn't great and the offense had their normal stretches of inconsistency and multiple three and outs. They've had zero games that they played solid for 60 minutes on the road this year. They have yet to play another game really well in all three facets in the 11 games since. We might have had some really bad performances against Jacksonville and Seattle last year, but we also put in some really good performances against good teams. We had games last year on the road where they stunk it up but never where the difference in play was so alarming. We also had a better defense and a ton less injuries last year.

    Having said this I'm not saying it's inevitable that the Ravens will lose all four of the rest of their games, but I'm also not going to put the purple glasses on and pretend this team has as good a shot of going to the SB as they did last year... or that they are as good right now as a other top teams in the league. Yes they still have time to turn it around but honestly if a team makes the same mistakes over and over and is getting bit by the injury bug time and time again it doesn't make me feel very optimistic or shrug it off as just a bad loss and they'll be alright come playoff time.




  13. #28

    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    I wonder if any Patriots fans said "We just lost to Kevin Kolb at home. How are we going to win the division?"

    Look, I want to see some coaching changes as well but this team isn't going to tailspin and go 0-4. There's a chance they could limp in but they should at least get one home game and once you're in, anything can happen. Either way, this February I'm hoping to see a Lombardi or Cam loading up a U-Haul...I won't hold my breath.




  14. #29
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    It's funny, had just a play or two gone our way, had we scratched out just a few points, our fans would be on top of the world, and Steeler's Nation would be in meltdown mode right now.




  15. #30

    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Still a lot of good football games left. It ain't over til the Steelers fan's wife sings.

    The Ravens can show us what they have with a couple of playoff bound teams on the schedule. If they can beat Denver and the Giants the band wagon will fill right back up. If not? Well, that 9-2 record sure was pretty. Too bad no one will remember it come January.

    I hope they can at least manage to go 3-1. Beat the scrub Redskins and pretender Bungles, and split with the bobbsey twins.




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