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  1. #46
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...



    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Which is it? Are they a good team that is under-performing (or just barely performing) or an average team with 9 wins that is over-performing. It looks like you are working both sides of the street here....
    Well, yes & no. (How's that for a definitive answer? ) I'm shuffling ideas around trying to get a sense of what needs fixing on this team. (Like everyone except the few here who call fans who want better from this team "spoiled" and "shitty", I believe there are things that need fixing.)

    Re talent: For years we've been told how great the Ravens' FO is, how well they draft & sign right-player-right-price FAs, how clever they are with the salary cap...OK, if that's the case, then the talent on the roster should be above average, shouldn't it?

    And yet they struggle to win more often than not. Why? It could be they're not good fits for the schemes the coordinators put them in per (RavensQB's "square peg in round hole" graphic). It could be that they're poorly coached regarding the skills & techniques needed to play their positions at the NFL level. Or it could be that they're just not talented, & the FO whiffed when they were drafted or signed. Or a combination of all three.

    Terrence Cody is a good example. The majority opinion was that he was a steal at pick 57 of the 2010 draft. He had a decent first 2 seasons here. This year he's been a disappointment--frequently out of position or pushed off the LoS, playing poorly enough that Kemo became the starter at NT even after he'd been out of football for a year. What's the problem?

    Part of it may be that he dropped a lot of weight during the offseason in hopes of gaining quickness but which also makes it easier for an OLman to move him. Part of it may be that his technique is poor because he's always gotten by on size. Part of it may be that he doesn't have the ideal physique for a NT--tall & tending toward top-heavy--so he needs to develop excellent technique to keep blockers from gaining leverage. Maybe he's not being taught well, maybe he's uncoachable, maybe he wants to be a Ngata clone rather than a NT.

    Kruger is another example. What were they thinking when they drafted him? Apparently that they could bulk him up to 280+ lbs. & make him into a DE. Didn't work, & he essentially lost a year and a half before they admitted it & sent him back to the LB corps.

    So when someone identifies a player who isn't performing at an acceptable level, the question is what's the real cause? It might be because he just isn't talented enough (which reflects on the FO & its evaluation of him). But it also might be because he's being asked to do something that isn't his strength (which may reflect on the FO or the coaching philosophy or both), or the coaches haven't trained him properly to do it. Unless you know the cause, you can't really fix it, because you can't be sure the same problem won't keep coming back. And that's really what I'd like to know.




  2. #47
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by ravens1217 View Post
    Wow, you really have lost touch with reality.

    You want our game plans to be the same as the Packers, Saints, and Broncos. They have 3 of the top 5 QB's in the league. Do you really think Flacco is as talented as Rodgers, Brees, and Manning? Of course not, nor should anyone including coaches expect him to be. However, you want our team to have the same game plan as three teams that are BELOW us in the standings. Saints are all but eliminated in 2012, the Packers are beatable this year with a healthy Rodgers. The Broncos were one position away from being an elite team last year and that was QB, so they went out and got one of the best ever in Peyton Manning and yet they have the same record as us, and we have a chance to beat them at home and finish ahead of them in the standings.

    You say we are no longer "unbeatable" at home because we lost to Charlie Batch. Let's get one thing straight, no team is "unbeatable" at home in the NFL. While teams naturally play better at home vs. on the road, all great teams lose games at home. We happened to have the longest home winning streak in the NFL. That is a credit to BOTH the players and the coaches, and also to a little bit of luck. That doesn't take away the fact that M&T Bank is one of the hardest places for opposing teams to win in the NFL. Yes, we lost to the Steelers when they had key injuries, but they are STILL the Steelers. Their coaches and players (yes, even backups) know this team inside and out. There is a reason 7 of the last 8 have been decided by 3 points or less, regardless of who is or isn't playing.

    It was definitely a "bad" loss by definition as we were favored by 5 points, but is not a CATASTROPHIC loss as you and others are making it out to be. If we lost 34-10, then maybe I could understand panic, but come on man, get a grip!! We still have a stranglehold on the AFC North and will get a home playoff game, which doesn't come around very often. While John Harbaugh and company have their flaws, as do every other coach in the NFL, just look at their record in both the regular and postseason and tell me you wouldn't have taken that in a heartbeat when Brian Billick was fired. Would you rather have a team like the Jags or Chargers who get blacked out a majority of their home games because their team stinks and their fans could care less about showing up to support them?? It could be so much worse, and as fans, we have absolutely no control over the outcome. Enjoy this while it lasts, teams don't make the playoffs every single year, there will be a time when we have several losing seasons in a row. Who knows if Harbaugh, Flacco, and company win a Super Bowl, only time will tell, but at least they have given us a lot more to look forward to each and every week then we could have ever imagined after the 2007 season.

    As I said in the first line, you have completely lost touch with reality, your expectations are way too high.
    I haven't lost touch with reality, it is you that accepts the Ravens lack of will. Folding up at half time with 30 seconds to go is the hallmark of this coaching staff. Little BITCHES that would rather protect a lead than dare to increase it because of what 'might' happen. That is the analogy I am using.

    Would a Brees, or Manning led team simply quit with 30 seconds to go? HELL NO. This goes beyond the offenses the Saints, Packers, and Broncos run. The difference here is they go for the throat, us, shit we worry about not losing here. And do not try and use some Jedi mind trick about the Saints being done, it is their defense that is their undoing, not Brees and the offense, so sell your crap somewhere else.

    As for the last game, no shit, any given Sunday. But with our 'stellar' game plan, we allowed Methuselah, I mean Batch to beat us. You slice it however you like, die hard Steeler fans predicted a horrific loss. NO EXCUSE. RAY RICE 12 carries? Sitting on the ball at the half? No dice, someone has to be held accountable for shitty planning, shitty and nonexistant adjustments, and even shittier game management. John Harbaugh - I think I'll challenge the Titanic was sunk by an ICEBERG.

    It is catastrophic, it was putting the stake into the heart of Dracula and we didn't even hit a blood vessel. You don't think the rest of the MONSTERS in the NFL didn't take notice. Shit, the Manning brothers are on the phone to each other on how to shred us because the offense can't do shit. Eventually the defense will buckle. I would not be surprised if we lose to both the Giants and the Broncos who know that they and the rest of the NFL sees that a quarterback two minutes cold and destined for the morgue can beat us at home.

    And here comes the most PATHETIC excuse ever:

    "Would you rather have a team like the Jags or Chargers who get blacked out a majority of their home games because their team stinks and their fans could care less about showing up to support them?

    Of course I wouldn't, but I want more. Just like the Buccaneers wanted long ago. They had success, they had wins, but they had nothing in terms of Super Bowls until they fired Dungy and hired Gruden.

    And, as for bringing up the 2007 season, it was an injury marred season with shit for a quarterback as far as the NFL goes. Brady goes down, so do the Patriots, or any team really. Was Billick given that break after a 13-3 season the year before? No, some bullshit about losing the locker room and an owner's "GUT" feeling. He didn't have that "GUT" feeling when McNair was playing like a real QB and Rex Ryan wasn't sticking knives in Billick's back.

    All you Kool-Aid drinkers want to give Harbaugh a pass and yet dismiss Brian Billick for having bad years with no decent QB like we have today. Brian Billick won a Super Bowl. Closest this clown we have as a head coach will ever get is talking about it while rubbing cream on Cam Cameron's ass because he does'n have balls like Billick to fire his friend.

    Yeah, my expectations are high. Go ask any Patriot or Giant's fan if not winning a Super Bowl is acceptable. It isn't.

    Chump fan's that accept winning regular season and getting thumped out of the playoffs only have one problem. Me and people like me that say this team has way too much in talent and not enough in brains as coaching goes to win it all.
    Last edited by Captain Silver; 12-05-2012 at 08:11 PM.




  3. #48

    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    Yeah, I think your in a little deeper than I am. What I was replying to was PB74 basically saying that this team only succeeds because of great plays by the players. Which is why I said if the players get the credit for the great things that happen than they need some of the blame for the bad things that happen.

    I want Cam gone. I've wanted Cam gone since at least 2010.
    No, what I actually meant is that when the pressure is on, our coaches almost always rely on the players to make big plays INSTEAD of trying to fix whatever hasn't been working up to that point...y'know by ADJUSTING.

    And please don't tell me that when Harbaugh is staring wide-eyed, almost as if he's in a trance or a stupor, while everything GRADUALLY begins to fall apart around him--I'm not talking about when there's a drastic momentum changing play that seems to come out of nowhere; I don't expect any coach to immediately adjust to the unexpected--but when there's an OBVIOUS AND EVIDENT PATTERN that points to an EVENTUAL AND PREDICTABLE OUTCOME, then yes, I expect a competent coach to: a) Notice and b) Intervene.

    Can you honestly say that TIMELY & PROPER INTERVENTION is one of Harbaugh's strengths?

    Like you, I wanted Cam gone in 2010 too, after that debacle in the playoffs against Pittsburgh were he had 3 possession WRs all running long deep routes while Joe was "protected" by a makeshift O-Line against the fiercest pass rush in the league.

    And Harbaugh stood there on the sidelines blithely, seeing NOTHING WRONG WITH ANY OF THAT.
    Last edited by PerpetuallyBored74; 12-05-2012 at 11:26 PM.




  4. #49

    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Hey man, I am all over the threads, I can only cover so much Harbaugh love.

    There is a large portion, not all, but a large portion of fans mirror our head coach. Even at this point, so does the owner Steve Bisciotti.

    Success in the NFL is often based off of wins. John has a lot. So many that he is safe in regards to what the owner wants. That chance, the glimmer of hope to maybe one day to win a Super Bowl. It does take a bit of luck aside from being good.

    But being good, being really, really good, in football, in life, in business can be enough. In fact, it can make you very, very, rich.

    But to be the best, the greatest, the one that stands above all others and can say, I am better than everyone else takes something more than being good. It demands more.

    We do not have that in a head coach. He is from the tree of almost. Bo Schembechler or Andy Ried, take your pick. Winning it all is not his pedigree. Never has been, never will be.

    I need not compare him to previous coaches or current coaches, I need only watch the flow of the game, the X's and O'x, the favorable player match-ups that are missed or squandered opportunities, be it 30 seconds at a half or the mismanagement of timeouts on foolish challenges. I get to watch a quarterback who has all the tools, be doubted in his contract year because of a superseding commitment to mediocrity in an offensive coordinator who is stuck in 1974.

    But again, there has been great success. I attribute this to the PLAYERS. Our players are simply better than most. Ozzie Newsome is getting a lot of flak now, but I say it is unwarranted, talent wise we have it.

    So being good based upon riding the talent of this team is what John Harbaugh's resume is. Pruple Kool-Aid drinking fans will call me the hater, which is fine. John Harbaugh had the great pleasure to step into a well stocked team and run it. Let's see how well that would go over in Buffalo or Cleveland.

    Good head coaches win a lot of games. Great head coaches win Super Bowls, they don't lose home games to 3rd string quarterbacks by kneeling on the ball at the half.
    I gotta disagree with you here. Capt. I know you are a big fan of Brainy Brian and his flash in the pan style of coaching, but I think slow and steady wins the race.

    Look at Cowher, probably the most well regarded head coach of the modern era. Ok outside of Belicheck, but that guy is a known cheater. It took him a long time, but Cowher won the big one. And he won enough games along the way to always have that spark of hope. it wasn't 11-5 one year then 5-11 the next.

    We've been on that roller coaster before, this one is more fun.




  5. #50
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    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    I gotta disagree with you here. Capt. I know you are a big fan of Brainy Brian and his flash in the pan style of coaching, but I think slow and steady wins the race.

    Look at Cowher, probably the most well regarded head coach of the modern era. Ok outside of Belicheck, but that guy is a known cheater. It took him a long time, but Cowher won the big one. And he won enough games along the way to always have that spark of hope. it wasn't 11-5 one year then 5-11 the next.

    We've been on that roller coaster before, this one is more fun.
    Cause slow and steady won in Kansas City, Philly? Give me a roller coaster to win a Super Bowl every 5 years rather than 10 years of winning everything but a Championship.

    Winning a Lombardi is everything, the team, the players, the city is imortalized in the NFL. Everyone else is forgotten. This coach is not going to get us to the promised land.

    Slow and steady? Yeah, the shitty ass Colts went through 1 losing season in how many and are now on the verge of the playoffs after blowing up the team and jettisoning one of the greatest quarterbacks EVER. Slow and steady my ass. Here and now is what it is.




  6. #51

    Re: The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Cause slow and steady won in Kansas City, Philly? Give me a roller coaster to win a Super Bowl every 5 years rather than 10 years of winning everything but a Championship.

    Slow and steady? Yeah, the shitty ass Colts went through 1 losing season in how many and are now on the verge of the playoffs after blowing up the team and jettisoning one of the greatest quarterbacks EVER. Slow and steady my ass. Here and now is what it is.
    Slow and steady works too.

    But only when there's progress.

    Otherwise you get the Andy Reid era Eagles or the Schottenheimer/Turner Chargers or the Lovie Smith Bears or the Harb...and I'll stop with the examples there.

    Because those teams hit their ceiling and for various reasons--including coaching--couldn't break through.




  7. #52
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    Those same Colts you're lauding for winning it all went to the playoffs and lost for YEARS before breaking through. Sort of like us right now. Don't act like they've won something with Luck yet just because they're having regular season success. Because Flacco and Harbs had just as much in their first year here (more since we know that they made the AFCC, something Luck isn't guaranteed at all).

    Here's some reality. There is no such thing as "The hump". Coaches are either good enough to get to the playoffs or they aren't. Once there, the razor wire margin between champion and choker is impossible to predict. Belichik has how many rings since he got caught cheating? Coughlin was coaching for how long before he hit pay dirt? I guess Bill sucks now and Tom sucked then and maybe they switched brains a few years ago. Yea, that's it!

    Chuck Knoll has more rings than anyone. But for every year that ended with a Lombardi, he had 6 that ended without. I guess he sucked 75% of his career.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




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