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  1. #16

    Re: Ravens Report Card???



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Do you have inside info on this you could share?
    I think I just did.

    Maybe you're generalize for the sake of brevity, but I've personally seen him in on plays being effective. But they're mostly running plays.
    OK, he's missed far more than he's made. I've also seen him on several occasion basically come out of his stance and essentially do nothing (other than perhaps an arm swat at a passing defender).
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  2. #17
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    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    I think I just did.
    Grrrrr. Fair enough


    OK, he's missed far more than he's made. I also seen him on several occasion basically stand up and essentially do nothing (other than perhaps an arm swat at a passing defender).
    I haven't seen that, but I haven't always been looking either, I'll take your word for it.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  3. #18
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    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Do you have inside info on this you could share?



    Maybe you're generalize for the sake of brevity, but I've personally seen him in on plays being effective. But they're mostly running plays.
    I'm not going to say that every play McKinney has been on the field as an extra blocker has been successful. It hasn't. But....most of the time he was brought on and the play was blown up it wasn't his man that blew up the play. It's tough for any running plays to have success when the def line is getting push up the middle on a consistent basis.

    If your Center and the three-person revolving door at Left Guard this year keep getting pushed back, most running plays will not work. It's a lot easier to scheme against pressure coming from the outside then when it's consistently coming up the middle.

    Does McKinney bust his ass every practice and every play? I'm not foolish enough to assert that. I know his work ethic isn't what it should be. I'm also not implying that he's pro-bowl tackle, especially at this point of his career. However, he is still the best option at LT of all the people currently on the roster.




  4. #19

    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    So why are they out there in that configuration? Because John Harbaugh is mad at Bryant McKinnie and refuses to start him.
    John Harbaugh wants to win football games. So did Brian Billick. So does every single coach in the NFL. He'd rather hold a grudge then put the best players on the field?

    I don't think so. I've never been a John Harbaugh cheerleader, but I will still give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows more about what the players' capabilities are, given his 24/7 access to them, than I do, sitting here at this computer.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  5. #20
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    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Okay, I'll defend myself a bit here.

    I realize the popular thing to do is to blame Cam for all losses. And to give everyone an F when the team loses.

    And I realize that the easy assumption to make when the team loses is to conclude that Ray Rice didn't touch the ball enough. It's easy to look at his 6.5 yards per carry average and say, hey, run the ball all day long with him and he gets 200 yards on the day.

    But I argue that part of the reason he was able to run effectively is the game plan, which I applaud, and which I believe was leaps and bounds smarter than what we saw two weeks ago in Pittsburgh, despite a better result.

    I liked the approach of spreading the field and pressuring the Steelers to drop back into coverage, opening up running lanes (a hallmark of the Air Coryell system that Cam came out of).

    Had the gameplan called for run, run, run, I argue that Rice's production would not be nearly as good as it looked. And besides, take away the 34 yard touchdown where he should have been tackled at the line, and his numbers don't look all that impressive.

    Starting late in the second quarter, Rice's carries were for 1, 2, 3, -1, 0, and the 34 yard TD where he should have been tackled for a loss.

    Had Cam kept running the ball like that, with three and outs, and then kicked the ball to the Steelers, I guarantee there would be the same harsh criticism of how conservative the offense was, and how scared Cam was to let Joe throw the ball.

    Hell, even when they failed to move the ball at the end of the game and were forced to punt, Koch sent it 57 yards to the Steelers 11 and the Ravens defense still failed to hold the lead.

    Take another look at the critical Flacco fourth-quarter sack/fumble after the Reed interception. It was typical of what the game was like for the Ravens. The Steelers have seven in the box and are playing one-deep. I don't know what the hell Flacco is doing. The ball should be going to an open Dennis Pitta on the forty, and thrown before he comes out of the break, because he's very much open. Torrey Smith is running a post pattern and has a step on the corner in the middle of the field. Ray Rice is there for a dump off underneath for anyone who thinks he was the magic answer.

    There is nothing wrong with the play call, but Oher can't slow down Harrison and Flacco pats the ball three times too many.

    No one was complaining when two plays earlier when Flacco hit Boldin for six. And no one was saying run the ball more after the next play, a run that went for -1. They did get Pitta involved on the very next play, and Oher and Flacco screwed the pooch. Not sure how that's on Cam.

    I also liked how they were creative enough to get Leach involved and use Rice to draw defenders away from the flat.

    My view of this game was that it was a decent gameplan spoiled by receivers who dropped balls, a left tackle who couldn't stop anyone, a quarterback who seems to have lost his way this season, and a general lack of intensity facing a wounded rival whose backs were against the wall.

    Look, I would have liked to have seen a few more running plays, too, and I would like to see the route trees consist of some more rubs and unpredictability. But on my list of why the Ravens offense failed last Sunday, the gameplan and playcalling were WAY down the list of problems from my perspective.

    Frankly, if I'm grading Harbaugh, Pees, and Cam, Cam gets the best grade of the bunch. Why is no one concerned that for 12 weeks now the defensive secondary can't all get on the same page and receivers are constantly open in the middle of the field?

    Let's not be afraid to place blame on players when it's the players who are failing to perform.
    good post. I liked the playcalling in the first half and actually said I thought it was one of Cam's better games. And I also liked them going deep and spreading the field, but where I thought they could improve was in using the middle of the field some and keeping Rice involved.

    Honestly I felt like Pitt would come in with a 'must win' mentality and find a way to keep it close. which they did. If a few of our offensive plays could've been executed it would've gone the other way IMO
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  6. #21

    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Okay, I'll defend myself a bit here.

    I realize the popular thing to do is to blame Cam for all losses. And to give everyone an F when the team loses.

    And I realize that the easy assumption to make when the team loses is to conclude that Ray Rice didn't touch the ball enough. It's easy to look at his 6.5 yards per carry average and say, hey, run the ball all day long with him and he gets 200 yards on the day.

    But I argue that part of the reason he was able to run effectively is the game plan, which I applaud, and which I believe was leaps and bounds smarter than what we saw two weeks ago in Pittsburgh, despite a better result.

    I liked the approach of spreading the field and pressuring the Steelers to drop back into coverage, opening up running lanes (a hallmark of the Air Coryell system that Cam came out of).

    Had the gameplan called for run, run, run, I argue that Rice's production would not be nearly as good as it looked. And besides, take away the 34 yard touchdown where he should have been tackled at the line, and his numbers don't look all that impressive.

    Starting late in the second quarter, Rice's carries were for 1, 2, 3, -1, 0, and the 34 yard TD where he should have been tackled for a loss.

    Had Cam kept running the ball like that, with three and outs, and then kicked the ball to the Steelers, I guarantee there would be the same harsh criticism of how conservative the offense was, and how scared Cam was to let Joe throw the ball.

    Hell, even when they failed to move the ball at the end of the game and were forced to punt, Koch sent it 57 yards to the Steelers 11 and the Ravens defense still failed to hold the lead.

    Take another look at the critical Flacco fourth-quarter sack/fumble after the Reed interception. It was typical of what the game was like for the Ravens. The Steelers have seven in the box and are playing one-deep. I don't know what the hell Flacco is doing. The ball should be going to an open Dennis Pitta on the forty, and thrown before he comes out of the break, because he's very much open. Torrey Smith is running a post pattern and has a step on the corner in the middle of the field. Ray Rice is there for a dump off underneath for anyone who thinks he was the magic answer.

    There is nothing wrong with the play call, but Oher can't slow down Harrison and Flacco pats the ball three times too many.

    No one was complaining when two plays earlier when Flacco hit Boldin for six. And no one was saying run the ball more after the next play, a run that went for -1. They did get Pitta involved on the very next play, and Oher and Flacco screwed the pooch. Not sure how that's on Cam.

    I also liked how they were creative enough to get Leach involved and use Rice to draw defenders away from the flat.

    My view of this game was that it was a decent gameplan spoiled by receivers who dropped balls, a left tackle who couldn't stop anyone, a quarterback who seems to have lost his way this season, and a general lack of intensity facing a wounded rival whose backs were against the wall.

    Look, I would have liked to have seen a few more running plays, too, and I would like to see the route trees consist of some more rubs and unpredictability. But on my list of why the Ravens offense failed last Sunday, the gameplan and playcalling were WAY down the list of problems from my perspective.

    Frankly, if I'm grading Harbaugh, Pees, and Cam, Cam gets the best grade of the bunch. Why is no one concerned that for 12 weeks now the defensive secondary can't all get on the same page and receivers are constantly open in the middle of the field?

    Let's not be afraid to place blame on players when it's the players who are failing to perform.
    When you game plan for more of a passing attack and your quarterback has a horrible game, it isn't going to be pretty. Maybe Cam doesn't like to ue the middle of the field because he figures that if Flacco is going to keep sailing balls over the heads of his receivers, its better to do it on the sidelines.




  7. #22

    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    Sorry, gotta disagree here. McKinnie hasn't worked hard in practice and has basically already checked out for the season.
    I also have to ask based on what info? He's been silent to the media, and so have the Ravens on him.




  8. #23

    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    John Harbaugh wants to win football games. So did Brian Billick. So does every single coach in the NFL. He'd rather hold a grudge then put the best players on the field?

    I don't think so. I've never been a John Harbaugh cheerleader, but I will still give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows more about what the players' capabilities are, given his 24/7 access to them, than I do, sitting here at this computer.
    I am typically a John Harbaugh supporter. However, if he continues to feel that this OL is the best 5 guys he can put out there based on what we have all seen from them, then I have to question his decision making.

    There is no doubt McKinnie is in the Harbaugh dog house. And we all know there is one. Of course Harbaugh wants to win. But that doesn't mean is putting the best 5 OL guys out there.




  9. #24

    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Coaches deserve a Zzzzzzz for letting the team sleep on the Steelers & CHARLIE FREAKING BATCH




  10. #25

    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    I also have to ask based on what info? He's been silent to the media, and so have the Ravens on him.
    Feel free to email some of the guys in the press, if you'd like.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




  11. #26
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    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    My view of this game was that it was a decent gameplan spoiled by receivers who dropped balls, a left tackle who couldn't stop anyone, a quarterback who seems to have lost his way this season, and a general lack of intensity facing a wounded rival whose backs were against the wall.
    Good point. I agree completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Frankly, if I'm grading Harbaugh, Pees, and Cam, Cam gets the best grade of the bunch. Why is no one concerned that for 12 weeks now the defensive secondary can't all get on the same page and receivers are constantly open in the middle of the field?

    Let's not be afraid to place blame on players when it's the players who are failing to perform.
    Also good points. I dunno if I can blame Pees completely with the 3rd and 4th stringers (not to mention guys from the PS) that we're running out there right now. The defense gave us 270 total yards in the 2nd half alone, and should've given up a lot more than the 90 that they did in the first half. If Flacco had the lack of pressure and wide open receivers that Batch did, he'd have hung 400+ yds passing on the Steelers.

    As for the o-line, they've got issues, but I don't think McKinnie is the answer. KO I think is okay. Really they need a new C (who knows if Gradkowski can step up next year), and I'd like to see them try to find a LT this offseason and move Oher to LG. But for now, I think they're stuck with what they've got. A lot of ppl worried about the o-line before the season, and it seems to have come to fruition.

    One thing that does frustrate me, and I put this more on Flacco than Cam, is the continuous forcing of balls down the field. I don't mind them taking some shots, hell, I like it. But when things are sputtering, and you're forcing it downfield into double and triple coverage every 2-3 plays, that's an issue. Not only do you risk INT's, but it contributes greatly to those 3 and outs that seem to plague the offense. If the deep route is double or triple covered, then someone has to be open underneath, whether it's a dump off to RR, a TE, or the other WR on a shorter route or going deep across the field. Ppl like to rip Cam for that, but the QB has his progressions, and it's on him to throw it to the open guy.
    Last edited by esmd; 12-04-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    Feel free to email some of the guys in the press, if you'd like.
    sure thing. I'll get Mike Preston online.

    this is the same press by the way I read and hear also saying that this is not the best offense line on the field and why isn't Bryant McKinnie out there.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2




  13. #28
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    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    I dunno if I can blame Pees completely with the 3rd and 4th stringers (not to mention guys from the PS) that we're running out there right now.
    Hmm. Good point. I should take into consideration how many players down they've been. Although, the communication issues have really been there from day one, back when only Suggs was missing (well, and JJ and Redding if you count them).


    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    As for the o-line, they've got issues, but I don't think McKinnie is the answer. KO I think is okay. Really they need a new C (who knows if Gradkowski can step up next year), and I'd like to see them try to find a LT this offseason and move Oher to LG. But for now, I think they're stuck with what they've got. A lot of ppl worried about the o-line before the season, and it seems to have come to fruition.
    McKinnie is clearly not the answer, I agree there. Birk has played better this year than last. But I worry about expecting much from Gradkowsi. Grubbs now looks like a big loss to me. Osemele is way ahead of projection and Oher way behind. I think the line is okay. You can win with them if all else is working.

    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    One thing that does frustrate me, and I put this more on Flacco than Cam, is the continuous forcing of balls down the field. I don't mind them taking some shots, hell, I like it. But when things are sputtering, and you're forcing it downfield into double and triple coverage every 2-3 plays, that's an issue. Not only do you risk INT's, but it contributes greatly to those 3 and outs that seem to plague the offense. If the deep route is double or triple covered, then someone has to be open underneath, whether it's a dump off to RR, a TE, or the other WR on a shorter route or going deep across the field. Ppl like to rip Cam for that, but the QB has his progressions, and it's on him to throw it to the open guy.
    I can't argue with this too much. It's Cam's philosophy and why they liked Flacco to begin with...the deep ball. On the plus side Flacco has avoided too many INTs for a team that does force it deep a lot. On the minus side I do feel like they limit their options when they try to balance the need to avoid INTs with the desire to throw deep with the desire to use Rice/Leach and the TE. I wish Cam's offense had more of a profile that made sense. Too clever for his own good.




  14. #29

    Re: Ravens Report Card???

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    sure thing. I'll get Mike Preston online.

    this is the same press by the way I read and hear also saying that this is not the best offense line on the field and why isn't Bryant McKinnie out there.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
    As my PM to you said, it's from guys that are far more reputable that Preston.
    Last edited by B-more Ravor; 12-04-2012 at 08:09 PM.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    As my PM to you said, it's from guys that are far more reputable that Preston.
    Well, in this case listening to the radio and reading the newspaper, your PM information isn't "iron clad" afaiac.

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2




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