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  1. #16
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    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?



    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    the thing is, they were killing it early this year. The offense looked like it had finally turned the corner and everything was clicking. what changed?
    No idea.

    Supposedly, Cam wants to run the no-huddle.

    Supposedly, the no-huddle was pushed by Caldwell.

    Supposedly, Flacco operates out of the no-huddle better than any other tempo.

    They've been successful with the no-huddle.

    Based on recent reports it would seem that Harbaugh doesn't want to run the no-huddle (just inferring that...have not actually read or heard that).

    IMO, if that is true, it is because the D can't hang and by playing conservative offense, it allows the D to remain rested and not be on the field as often. That is the ONLY reasonable explanation I can come up with.
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  2. #17

    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Thing is, they have before...as Ravenswintitle noted above...what changed?
    They never have done it "enough," but I agree that some games we complete a couple/few passes like these and others we complete/attempt none. No idea what changed, other than playcalling based on risk assessment, or perhaps in couple instances, us throwing to a safer route on the play.




  3. #18
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    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    what change was cam, buit haqrbaugh has his hand in it too.




  4. #19
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    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    No idea.

    Supposedly, Cam wants to run the no-huddle.

    Supposedly, the no-huddle was pushed by Caldwell.

    Supposedly, Flacco operates out of the no-huddle better than any other tempo.

    They've been successful with the no-huddle.

    Based on recent reports it would seem that Harbaugh doesn't want to run the no-huddle (just inferring that...have not actually read or heard that).

    IMO, if that is true, it is because the D can't hang and by playing conservative offense, it allows the D to remain rested and not be on the field as often. That is the ONLY reasonable explanation I can come up with.
    For the SD game I believe that was the case, Harbs pretty much said that. But yesterday they clearly were taking deep shots early and often because they knew that type of game was not what they needed. (I'm speculating of course). Then when Rice gets the TD, and 10 yds on his next carry, I don't think he touched the ball again... it's mind boggling at times
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  5. #20
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    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    For the SD game I believe that was the case, Harbs pretty much said that. But yesterday they clearly were taking deep shots early and often because they knew that type of game was not what they needed. (I'm speculating of course). Then when Rice gets the TD, and 10 yds on his next carry, I don't think he touched the ball again... it's mind boggling at times
    That's what I don't understand.

    How can they expect the play action to work if they aren't giving Rice the ball?
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  6. #21

    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    I'm thinking the Ravens passed to open up the running game and have rice run out the clock in the 4th at the end. They gambled on the D getting a quick stop on Batch only for him to not only get a TD off a fumble but eat all that clock up and drive down the field for a FG. It almost worked if Doss held on to that pass, then they make a short yardage situation to get a first down and wear the steelers out with Rice. But woulda coulda shoulda don't cut it in this league obviously. The gameplan was right for the most part, keep in mind the Steelers have the number 1 D and are division rivals. Look at what the Rams did to SF this year and look at their record.




  7. #22

    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    Teams figured out if they drop 8 in coverage, the receivers cant get open running these isolation routes and it forces Joe to hold the ball waiting for them to get open.
    Yup defenses have adapted to Cam's scheme and Cam hasnt answered those adjustments. Torrey, last year, would get open on deep balls quite a few times. This year... maybe 3 times at most (Raiders TD). Not good.

    The one new thing they've done successfully (at home) is no-huddle. No-huddle gets Joe in a rhythm. Where the hell was it last nite? If Harbs truly is putting the kibosh on it when Cam and Caldwell want it, he is an idiot. Sure you want the defense rested with ball control offensive drives, but there are ways to run clock with the no huddle. Rice is good at running the ball out of shotgun. Ultimately the offense's #1 goal is to score points and our no-huddle provides that more than the ball control 2WR/FB/TE set.




  8. #23
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    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    Yup defenses have adapted to Cam's scheme and Cam hasnt answered those adjustments. Torrey, last year, would get open on deep balls quite a few times. This year... maybe 3 times at most (Raiders TD). Not good.

    The one new thing they've done successfully (at home) is no-huddle. No-huddle gets Joe in a rhythm. Where the hell was it last nite? If Harbs truly is putting the kibosh on it when Cam and Caldwell want it, he is an idiot. Sure you want the defense rested with ball control offensive drives, but there are ways to run clock with the no huddle. Rice is good at running the ball out of shotgun. Ultimately the offense's #1 goal is to score points and our no-huddle provides that more than the ball control 2WR/FB/TE set.
    It is easy to cover receivers in Cam's offense when they only run 2-3 routes. Secondly, it is easy to cover receivers in Cam's offense because more often than not you have guys running the SAME routes on the SAME side of the field.
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  9. #24
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    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    It is easy to cover receivers in Cam's offense when they only run 2-3 routes. Secondly, it is easy to cover receivers in Cam's offense because more often than not you have guys running the SAME routes on the SAME side of the field.
    like i been saying for 2yrs now, there is no flooding the zones, no trip sets or bunch formations, no 4-5 wideouts spreading the field, in cam's system you 3 wideouts and 1 TE and rice as the bailout plan those 3 wideouts one on side and 2 on the other one running deep (torrey), one running intermediate (jacoby) and boldin taking the curls and drags its all the same shit every game i EVEN KNOW WHEN ITS COMING if I know you damn sure know nfl coaches know. its the same shit.




  10. #25
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    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    like i been saying for 2yrs now, there is no flooding the zones, no trip sets or bunch formations, no 4-5 wideouts spreading the field, in cam's system you 3 wideouts and 1 TE and rice as the bailout plan those 3 wideouts one on side and 2 on the other one running deep (torrey), one running intermediate (jacoby) and boldin taking the curls and drags its all the same shit every game i EVEN KNOW WHEN ITS COMING if I know you damn sure know nfl coaches know. its the same shit.
    I just don't understand why Boldin is the only guy who really gets looks over the middle of the field.

    Why is it that JAcoby and Torrey (for the most part) only are running 9's? Last I checked, they are two of the fastest guys on the squad...seems to me that Jacoby in the middle of the field with the ball in his hands could be pretty lethal for opposing D's...
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  11. #26

    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Brees couldn't do it in Cam system (with CAM) and Rivers couldn't do it either. How much more "proof" do you need (a 10 year track record) that Cam Cameron produces a mediocre offense at best. Put Joe on the 49ers and they're in the Superbowl.




  12. #27

    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Regarding the whole timing/throwing the ball as the WR comes out of his break/etc. thing, I want to remind you guys of something that was reported not long ago that I had never really heard or noticed before.

    The Ravens, unlike teams that use a West Coast passing attack, don't want their receivers making sharp, 90-degree breaks when they come out of their routes. Baltimore's Air Coryell offense asks its receivers to instead bend their routes while running full speed, a change that might seem subtle, but one that -- to a wide receiver -- is like trying to learn to write left-handed after spending your entire life as a righty.
    from Kevin Van Valkenberg's article for ESPN, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/...r-torrey-smith

    This made my jaw drop when I read it. I'm just a guy who played a little college ball and coached a little rec/intramural football, but even I know that probably the #1 mechanical flaw a wideout can have in his game is rounding off his routes. From the very very earliest levels kids who play wide receiver are taught to be SHARP out of their breaks. And yet, in Cam's system they're taught the exact opposite?

    Ever since I read that (which BTW I had NEVER heard attributed to Cam's system before) I started watching the receivers closely. And it's true. Almost every route except the out route is rounded off out of the break, instead of broken off sharply. On a timing route, in a normal NFL offense the ball is supposed to leave the QB's hand at the instant the receiver comes out of his break. But how do you do that when the receiver doesn't actually break at all but instead kind of lazily, gradually bends the route in the desired direction?

    Why are the receivers struggling so much to get separation? Because it's so easy for a DB to read them. They don't run very many routes at all, they don't run any double moves, and when they DO run a route that should break sharply to get them some separation, they bend it. Torrey Smith runs a lot of deep and skinny post routes--go watch all the deep incompletions he ran last night. On almost all of them, he very gradually bends toward the post, making no effort to use a head fake, jut step, or any other route running techniques. It's just so easy for a DB to follow that route all the way down the field and without a sharp break there's no definite point for the ball to come out.

    This needs to be pointed out, because again it's a serious coaching error that is having a cascading effect on the entire passing game. Go back and re-watch with this in mind and it will really change the way you see things.




  13. #28

    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    I know that's part of it, they were playing the top defense in a must win game. But they put up 44 against Cinci, 31 against NE and Dallas...
    Cinci's defense was hurt at the beginning of the season and just werent clicking yet. NE has a shitting D and Dallas was one of our good offensive games.




  14. #29
    iggyman555 Guest

    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Oline and WR coaches should be first guys fired in the end of the season...cam most likely staying




  15. #30
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    Re: Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Regarding the whole timing/throwing the ball as the WR comes out of his break/etc. thing, I want to remind you guys of something that was reported not long ago that I had never really heard or noticed before.



    from Kevin Van Valkenberg's article for ESPN, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/...r-torrey-smith

    This made my jaw drop when I read it. I'm just a guy who played a little college ball and coached a little rec/intramural football, but even I know that probably the #1 mechanical flaw a wideout can have in his game is rounding off his routes. From the very very earliest levels kids who play wide receiver are taught to be SHARP out of their breaks. And yet, in Cam's system they're taught the exact opposite?

    Ever since I read that (which BTW I had NEVER heard attributed to Cam's system before) I started watching the receivers closely. And it's true. Almost every route except the out route is rounded off out of the break, instead of broken off sharply. On a timing route, in a normal NFL offense the ball is supposed to leave the QB's hand at the instant the receiver comes out of his break. But how do you do that when the receiver doesn't actually break at all but instead kind of lazily, gradually bends the route in the desired direction?

    Why are the receivers struggling so much to get separation? Because it's so easy for a DB to read them. They don't run very many routes at all, they don't run any double moves, and when they DO run a route that should break sharply to get them some separation, they bend it. Torrey Smith runs a lot of deep and skinny post routes--go watch all the deep incompletions he ran last night. On almost all of them, he very gradually bends toward the post, making no effort to use a head fake, jut step, or any other route running techniques. It's just so easy for a DB to follow that route all the way down the field and without a sharp break there's no definite point for the ball to come out.

    This needs to be pointed out, because again it's a serious coaching error that is having a cascading effect on the entire passing game. Go back and re-watch with this in mind and it will really change the way you see things.
    Interesting.
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