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  1. #61
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    The crime of passion meme has been disproven by criminologists and is now considered a mere extension of a number of personality disorders, including being a sociopath.

    And I could care less what the reason is behind it. He's a murderer who killed the mother if his children in front of his own mother then purposely placed his other "family" in harms way (both physically and emotionally) by driving to the Chiefs facility and shooting himself in front of people he supposedly cared about.

    Had he cared about his family, the murder would have never took place. Had he cared about his team, he wouldn't have sought out Crenel or Pioli and blew his brains out in their presence.

    It's the height of selfishness, worthy of the level of caring he showed other people -- none.

    My caring goes to the daughter. I pray she's young enough that she won't have a memory of his selfish and uncaring acts that he perpetrated in front of her.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #62
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    Re: OT: Shooting at Chiefs facility

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyrl View Post
    I understand the outrage, but trying to put logical explanations behind his motivation is just the wrong way to evaluate the situation. Suicide goes against every natural instinct that has been engrained in the human psyche since birth. Regardless of the circumstance he was obviously mentally ill. Sane people simply don't do this. Easy to cast judgment using logic and rational thinking but it's probably fair to say that neither of those entered the picture for Belcher. This is a truly sad and tragic situation for everyone involved.
    This. Times 10.
    "CARPE LOMBARDI"




  3. #63
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    Re: Chefs Tragedy and "The Game Must Go On"

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Petard View Post
    Just browsing the headlines, and saw this item about Jovan Belcher from KC. Incredibly sad, and I'm sure traumatic for Pioli, Crennel, others involved, the team, the fans, etc. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of them.

    As a Ravens-related issue, however, I wanted to ask about the following from the article--
    =====
    "I struggle a little bit, obviously, because Jovan Belcher's profile elevates the subject," Kansas City Mayor Sly James said. "I hope people will look at the situation and try not to judge the person. There are a lot of people hurting. There's a young baby right now without parents."

    James said that he spoke to Pioli after the incident. While he refused to discuss the GM's emotional state, James said Pioli was "extremely concerned that fans of this team are not disappointed and not left in the cold."

    "I think they think there's an obligation to the people of this city, the fans of the team and the fans of the other team to play the game," James said.

    The news cast a pall over the organization as its 1-10 team prepared to play the Panthers on Sunday.
    ======

    I realize there are a lot of factors involved here, and not to single out any one more important than another, but money is one. What would you think if something similar happened with a Ravens player? Should a game be postponed?
    Is postponing the game really going to make a difference for the Chiefs coaches and players? For those that saw it happen I can't imagine any amount of time is going to help them forget.

    If it was me I would be focused on that little girl. That's who I would dedicate the game to She's the one who can still be helped. Maybe the organization should start some sort of education fund for her? Or, maybe give to an abused women's group in her name. She's really all I can think about in this. The game just isn't that important.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #64
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    Re: OT: Shooting at Chiefs facility

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The crime of passion meme has been disproven by criminologists and is now considered a mere extension of a number of personality disorders, including being a sociopath.

    And I could care less what the reason is behind it. He's a murderer who killed the mother if his children in front of his own mother then purposely placed his other "family" in harms way (both physically and emotionally) by driving to the Chiefs facility and shooting himself in front of people he supposedly cared about.

    Had he cared about his family, the murder would have never took place. Had he cared about his team, he wouldn't have sought out Crenel or Pioli and blew his brains out in their presence.

    It's the height of selfishness, worthy of the level of caring he showed other people -- none.

    My caring goes to the daughter. I pray she's young enough that she won't have a memory of his selfish and uncaring acts that he perpetrated in front of her.
    Agree entirely. What you feel sorry for the local homeless guy of he murdered someone then took his own life? No you be calling him what he is and have sympathy for everyone else involved, why should this guy get a pass because he's a nfl player?

    Then people ask why sports stars think they are entitled? We make them entitled.




  5. #65
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    Re: Chefs Tragedy and "The Game Must Go On"

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Is postponing the game really going to make a difference for the Chiefs coaches and players? For those that saw it happen I can't imagine any amount of time is going to help them forget.

    If it was me I would be focused on that little girl. That's who I would dedicate the game to She's the one who can still be helped. Maybe the organization should start some sort of education fund for her? Or, maybe give to an abused women's group in her name. She's really all I can think about in this. The game just isn't that important.
    similar, but not really situation. A soccer player in Italy died on the pitch, heart attack. Anyway his sister was handicapped and he was the last relative, so when he passed a player, on another team, not even his own team, another team, in the higher league, took on all financial responsibility for the deceased's sister.

    This is the kind of think if the chiefs as a team, or player(s) decided to take on should be praised and highlighted in the news




  6. #66
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    Re: OT: Shooting at Chiefs facility

    Chiefs plan to have a moment of silence before the game to honor all victims of domestic violence.

    Chiefs' players have asked the Javon Belcher's locker remain untouched until after the game.


    I think both of these are appropriate memorials, one for the public and extended family, one for the more intimate, team family. I hope the Chiefs and the NFL do something big and significant for the 3 month old daughter to help support her in her life.




  7. #67
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    Re: OT: Shooting at Chiefs facility

    Houston, while I get what you are saying, there's also something to be said if the man had a mental problem that went unchecked. I don't think he murdered his wife/girlfriend (I don't remember if they were married or not) out of sheer evil or pleasure. Mental disorders in this country are WAY overlooked and especially in a profession like sports, there's some underlying feeling like "if you come out and ask for help, you're going to be treated differently".

    I don't know if that was the case here or not, and I'm not sure if that will ever be known...but I'm also not going to outright write this guy off as common scum.

    EDIT: The Chiefs also realized it was a tricky line, so they are choosing to hold a moment of silence for ALL domestic violence victims.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...lence-victims/
    .
    .
    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  8. #68
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    Oh, I have no doubt he had an underlying mental condition. But, IMO, that's a separate issue to the murder and not necessarily the cause.

    Correlation does not equal causation. Plenty of people with undiagnosed mental issues live their lives without murdering someone.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #69
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    Re: OT: Shooting at Chiefs facility

    not to be insensitive but how do the Chiefs respond today? Do they play their hearts out or sleepwalk through the game?
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  10. #70
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    Re: OT: Shooting at Chiefs facility

    GOTA-
    Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that I believe that postponing the game was the appropriate thing to do, nor am I sure that I feel there's a "right" thing to do. I see a lot of comments that cover a lot of bases on this thread, and it gives me some insight into what folks think. Like I noted earlier in my other post, there are a lot of factors.

    For me, one is Crennel. The guy's at work, more or less, and an important employee who he is counting on for work the next day reportedly comes up to him in the presence of another senior level manager (Pioli), has a "quite friendly" chat with them, then blows his own brains out in front of them. On the surface, that sounds pretty traumatic to me. I suspect I'd want to ask for a couple days off. I'd also think that some immediate grief counseling in lieu of the next day or two (or more) of work might be in order.

    I really agree with your comments about helping the daughter. Notwithstanding the endless number of good causes available, it's a shame that it sometimes takes a tragedy like this for things to focus on issues like mental health (which is what I'd guess was a root issue with Belcher), or the victims of those issues. And I agree with your comment that the game is just not that important -- that's more or less why I was wondering how others felt about the concept of postponing. Obviously there are elements of doing that (postponement) that have different levels of priority, and the world doesn't stop for every tragedy, I guess you deal with each event on its own "merits".




  11. #71

    Re: OT: Shooting at Chiefs facility

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    Then let them feel sorry for him. Let them care, and mourn. *I* have no sympathy for him. If he wasn't a football player, almost nobody else would either.

    Good people die all the time and I don't know them, or mourn them. Why should I go out of my way to get choked up over a murderer? I think not.

    I don't think this is quite what you were saying, RiW, but there is so much mopey-eyed stuff all over the internet over how this was a decent guy & we should all feel bad, I'm way past tired of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The crime of passion meme has been disproven by criminologists and is now considered a mere extension of a number of personality disorders, including being a sociopath.

    And I could care less what the reason is behind it. He's a murderer who killed the mother if his children in front of his own mother then purposely placed his other "family" in harms way (both physically and emotionally) by driving to the Chiefs facility and shooting himself in front of people he supposedly cared about.

    Had he cared about his family, the murder would have never took place. Had he cared about his team, he wouldn't have sought out Crenel or Pioli and blew his brains out in their presence.

    It's the height of selfishness, worthy of the level of caring he showed other people -- none.

    My caring goes to the daughter. I pray she's young enough that she won't have a memory of his selfish and uncaring acts that he perpetrated in front of her.
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    Agree entirely. What you feel sorry for the local homeless guy of he murdered someone then took his own life? No you be calling him what he is and have sympathy for everyone else involved, why should this guy get a pass because he's a nfl player?

    Then people ask why sports stars think they are entitled? We make them entitled.
    Nobody is asking for you to feel sorry for Belcher.

    I am just pointing out why his friends and family...which extends to the NFL as a whole and as a result, a portion of the sports media "cares" for him.

    You guys are right...if he wasn't an NFL player, there wouldn't be near as much news about this...but that is because that person wouldn't have enjoyed near the popularity that being a professional athlete entails. I can GUARANTEE you though that that persons friends and family would "care" for him or her just like Belcher's family is...Belcher's family just happens to be VERY public and that is why it's on the news and such.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  12. #72

    Re: OT: Shooting at Chiefs facility

    I didn't misunderstand you, RiW, like I wrote at the time.

    But I would like to see a *lot* more condemnation from this so-called "family," because it looks to me like the guy's being worshiped like he's a @#$%ing misunderstood *hero*. And that's disgraceful.

    I want to see some condemnation. That comes first.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




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